Is this High grafted Mugo Pine trash

[GroveBonsai]

I am almost embarrassed to post this. I just can’t seem to get it right with pine purchases lately. I swear I’m not that much of a noob. Haha.

I have made up my mind that i want to dive into pines. Last week i got a thunderhead black pine that after purchasing, i found out wasn’t a good variety for bonsai. Still gonna stick it out though cause at least I’m immersing myself in general multi flush pine knowledge.

Next i decided to do my research and get a Mugo. Tough, adaptable, hardy, forgiving. I go to my favorite nursery hunting ground and see this guy. It’s the only Mugo they have. I sorta fall in love with the challenge of the tall bare trunk. I definitely can create something there. It’s a puff now but i can drop some lower branches and elongated the apex. Example below

I don’t know how a missed that it was grafted on what i assume is black pine. Though, thinking back now, duh. Of course it’s grafted. Look at it!!

My question is, the graft union is awful....yet, but is it something that will just get worse as time goes on? Do i monkey around with this tree for a few years and see what i can create? What would you do?!

Thanks in advance.

 

[Nybonsai12]

My 2 cents

If it wasn't cheap, i'd see if I could take it back and put money towards something better.

If it was cheap, have fun messing with it over the next few seasons, wiring, pruning, learning etc...

I'd give up looking in garden centers for pine material. Most will have plenty of problems, grafts/terrible nebari, etc...Spend the time, energy and money on pines grown for bonsai purposes.

 

[Dav4]

The trunk on the Mugo doesn't have nearly the interest as the tree you posted for comparison, and the graft union may bulge more over time. I'd return it if I could.

 

[GroveBonsai]

My 2 cents

If it wasn't cheap, i'd see if I could take it back and put money towards something better.

If it was cheap, have fun messing with it over the next few seasons, wiring, pruning, learning etc...

I'd give up looking in garden centers for pine material. Most will have plenty of problems, grafts/terrible nebari, etc...Spend the time, energy and money on pines grown for bonsai purposes.

Thank you. It was $50, which, I’ll survive. The nursery has a strict no return policy. I think I’ve got the “impulse pine” bug out of my system and learned a lesson.

 

[Nybonsai12]

Thank you. It was $50, which, I’ll survive. The nursery has a strict no return policy. I think I’ve got the “impulse pine” bug out of my system and learned a lesson.

It happens, we've all been there.

For $50 it will be fun to play with and learn on. If you are still on the hunt, check out the FB auctions as they occasionally have decent black pine material. Muranaka out of Cali sells on ebay and has decent black pine for under $200 that are great to work with and learn on(decandling, needle pulling, wiring etc).

And if you are patient, you could always try from seed, but that's a long haul, but fun.

 

[just.wing.it]

Well.....my $0.02 is that the graft doesn't look too bad, as far as bad grafts go.

Now, $50.00 is 50 bux, depending on your current financial situation.....so the cost is subjective.

I think its an interesting tree, for a mugo....what is it grafted to?....any idea?
To me.....I'd keep it.

 

[Japonicus]

Brent grows good BP stock to grow out at https://www.evergreengardenworks.com/pinus.htm
I got one of his corkers, and if I get pines down good, it's on its' way to being a really nice tree.
It is grafted very low, and has taken off nicely.
Mugo is often grafted to Scotts, and I have one, though too young to compare bark.

As to the comparison image...I seriously doubt in our lifetime that a long lower branch like that
will be achieved without grafting. Mugo goes pretty slow from what I've had.
I agree with @just.wing.it that the union doesn't look bad or I'm just missing it in the pics.
My grafted one was sold to me as on it's own roots, then when I got it, it was not. There's a big colour
difference in the 2 barks on mine, but Scotts and Mugo blend pretty well from what the boys
up in Michigan tell me

 

[GroveBonsai]

thanks guys for the responses. You’re making feel a little better about it. Yeah the comparison was just to illustrate a tree that has all its branching beginning at about 2/3 up the tree. I guess a pointless point.

The graft isn’t that bad. I didn’t notice it till the tree was on its side in my trunk so you kinda have to LOOK for it. Like you all say, I’ll just take a deep breath, except it for what it is (Maybe anthropomorphize it and call it my Frankenstein) and just have fun. thanks again.

 

[PABonsai]

Could this be layered so the graft is closer to soil level and less noticeable? I'm not familiar enough with pines so just an idea.

 

[Bonsai_Bentley]

Could this be layered so the graft is closer to soil level and less noticeable? I'm not familiar enough with pines so just an idea.

Pines take forever to layer.

 

[Bonsai_Bentley]

I wouldn't feel bad about that purchase. If anything I'd enjoy the challenge. Just enjoy the tree and appreciate what it has to offer.

 

[Colorado]

You could do much, much worse for $50.

Shoot, I’d take it off your hands for 50 bucks!

The bark on the trunk is nice, don’t see any horrible knuckles which usually come with mugos, and the graft is not distracting (in my opinion) when you view the whole tree.

I think you can make this into a pretty darn nice tree in time. You could probably disguise the graft with a foliage pad if it ends up bulging.

 

[MrWunderful]

Try to make the canopy look like the one you posted. Use it as a learning tree for wiring/ branch development/structure etc. by the time it looks as well structured as the one you posted you will have learned how to pick a good one.

 

[GroveBonsai]

I took your guys advice, had a glass of wine and had some fun. Either i turned it into something i was excited about or something i resented. i dont have the appropriate wire gauge on hand so some light guy wiring for now. I will now keep it in my winter storage because of the reduction of foliage. Angle preferences? The graft is just under the first two branches.

 

[MrWunderful]

I say exaggerate the angle even more to the left, have that lower right branch come back strong to the right and in a few years it will be a decent looking tree. Maybe you get really good and wedge cut it to give some interest.

 

[Djtommy]

I say exaggerate the angle even more to the left, have that lower right branch come back strong to the right and in a few years it will be a decent looking tree. Maybe you get really good and wedge cut it to give some interest.

I would probably do something like this, it’s going to take some engineering to bend the trunk like this and maybe a wedge cut is necessary too but no pain no gain right.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I like DJTommy's suggestion, but WARNING, don't try to bend across the graft union. There is a danger of breaking the graft. It will always be a weak point in the trunk, as a generalization, all wires should stop before the graft, and wires begin above the graft. Wiring across a graft could result in pressure on the graft with the danger of tearing the graft. Grafts take up to 10 years to fully fuse, and even after full fusion, the union is a weak point.

 

[GroveBonsai]

I would probably do something like this, it’s going to take some engineering to bend the trunk like this and maybe a wedge cut is necessary too but no pain no gain right.
View attachment 271924

I’m not scared of nuffin! Haha. I mean, yes I’m definitely open to learning that technique on this tree. What is the yellow rectangle? The new pot?

I like DJTommy's suggestion, but WARNING, don't try to bend across the graft union. There is a danger of breaking the graft. It will always be a weak point in the trunk, as a generalization, all wires should stop before the graft, and wires begin above the graft. Wiring across a graft could result in pressure on the graft with the danger of tearing the graft. Grafts take up to 10 years to fully fuse, and even after full fusion, the union is a weak point.

Thank you! That info helps in knowing where i can apply leverage during a big bend/wedge cut

 

[August44]

And when you trimmed off branches, why did you leave the knobs? I think I have heard of that being done on Mugo before, but don't remember why.

 

[GroveBonsai]

And when you trimmed off branches, why did you leave the knobs? I think I have heard of that being done on Mugo before, but don't remember why.

I just left them for possible future jins. I also wanted the to dry out on the own and prevent dieback.