Issue with white pine

[Lewis87]

Hello, question to anybody with pine experience. I have a white pine on its own roots. This spring I have notice a couple branches with brown needles but it looks like the buds still look healthy ie red and not black and brittle. The rest of the trees buds are extending into candles apart from these. Is there any hope they will grow or will they they eventually die?

 

[Adamski77]

Photo?

 

[penumbra]

What is the placement of the branches that are not responding or responding slowly? Top branches are generally more vigorous.
Also, is it an Eastern White Pine, a Japanese White Pine, or another?

 

[Lewis87]

It’s a Japanese white pine. First pictures are from a branch in the middle of the tree. The others are the lowest on the right. I’m not hopeful with the lowest branches to be honest. This is the back of the tree by the way.
It was protected with an acrylic shelter which was made to sit around the trunk to protect from rain over the winter so I doubt it’s root rot.
We had a cold spell here in the UK if that has made an impact.
Could it be possible lack of light over winter?

 

[Dav4]

That's a sick tree and the damage is widespread. When was it last re-potted? Was it sprayed with anything? Cold is unlikely as JWP is very cold hardy. How humid was the acrylic shelter? Was the shelter exposed to sun?

 

[Lewis87]

It’s fairly new and not sure when it was last repotted. The shelter sat up just before first branch so air could circulate. I did spray with some rose clear fungus spray

 

[Shibui]

I'm also not optimistic for the branches with mostly dead needles but healthy buds is always cause for optimism until they are no longer healthy.
Dehydration can cause similar symptoms. Lack of light also causes entire branches to die but the random pattern of dead parts doesn't look right for shading.
I would be lifting the tree out of the pot to assess condition of both visible roots and soil to see if there's any obvious signs down there.

 

[Lewis87]

Thanks for the info. It appears just those areas and only at the back of tree. The rest looks ok and growing. Candles are not the strongest but still around an inch in size on the majority.
im reluctant to lift the tree myself as it quite big but I could get someone to help me. I had planned for a repot next year.

 

[JudyB]

This is a very nice tree, I think that I'd want to take it to a reputable bonsai specialist in your area.

 

[Adamski77]

Thanks for the info. It appears just those areas and only at the back of tree. The rest looks ok and growing. Candles are not the strongest but still around an inch in size on the majority.
im reluctant to lift the tree myself as it quite big but I could get someone to help me. I had planned for a repot next year.

sorry to say but you keep repeating that it’s only these branches… for me the entire tree doesn’t look happy at all… it’s very dull green… I think there is something general bothering it… probably overwintering… but it’s only a wild guess

 

[Shogun610]

If you bought that tree from a professional I’d seek advise from that professional to run a diagnostic

 

[jszg]

That's a really beautiful tree. I would bring it to the nursery you bought it from: I'd imagine especially considering the value of the tree, they'd be very willing to help.

 

[R0b]

Pay attention to watering, protect from rain when wet, let the rootball (mostly) dry out before watering again, think about the core of the pots So dig a bit to judge the soil deeper down. Of course depending on temperatures and sun but as it is spring that shouldn’t be a huge risk. The soil quality can not be judged from pictures but it could be retaining too much moisture for the UK, lost a tree myself due to it staying to wet / no oxygen.

 

[Lewis87]

Thanks for the advise.
Tree was bought from Spain last year. I will be careful with watering. I’ve made an alcove just like you see at the pacific bonsai museum so that will help better than what it had this year as water still got through around the trunk, minimal but we have had a wet winter and ridiculously wet March. My thoughts were if it’s root rot the top would appear yellow.
The tree was a little stressed last summer from the heat which may have made the general appearance of the tree to not look as green as it should.

 

[Japonicus]

This is a very nice tree, I think that I'd want to take it to a reputable bonsai specialist in your area.

I agree with Judy

Soil looks heavy and a bit organic.
If you pinch candles back this Spring when elongation is complete but not opened much
do not pinch candles back in the weak areas. This will channel more energy to the weaker branches.

For fungal application you’ll need to spray when the candles are not fully mature and not opened
and repeat as they are opening, as well as an application of Bonide fungal treatment granules
if sold in you’re area to treat systemically, around the time of the 1st spray. Repeat annually.

The lack of light over Winter will not cause this. Needs full Sun during growing season however.
Very nice tree, good luck.
Judging by the pics, the window to repot is coming to an end soon.

 

[August44]

Wow! Nice tree for sure. I would say root problem...either to much water or roots severely wacked on at recent repotting. I looks like it is on it's way out. Hard to get a pine to stop dying once it starts. Hope I'm wrong. I would get some help with that tree ASAP. Luck.

 

[JudyB]

Thanks for the advise.
Tree was bought from Spain last year. I will be careful with watering. I’ve made an alcove just like you see at the pacific bonsai museum so that will help better than what it had this year as water still got through around the trunk, minimal but we have had a wet winter and ridiculously wet March. My thoughts were if it’s root rot the top would appear yellow.
The tree was a little stressed last summer from the heat which may have made the general appearance of the tree to not look as green as it should.

With all these changes to its environment, the visual poor health, and the obvious value of the tree, I don’t know why you would do anything other than seek professional local help for this tree.

 

[Adamski77]

Agree... this is outstanding tree... but my guess it's a matter of moving it from super sunny Spain to a "little bit less sunny" UK. I guess you need to take a very good care of it and have patience... it's an old specimen and moving is few thousand km up north surely doesn't help it. Fingers crossed...

 

[Potawatomi13]

Sorry but personally find tree has good trunk but very formulaic and uninteresting and should be improved by loss of few branches. Perhaps more thinning of main branches also is needed. Be thankful for forced re design as this often happens. Question of why loss: is perhaps too wet roots or other cause?

 

[MaciekA]

If the tree is alive and there exists connectivity between foliage and root tips, then it's possible to save at least some portion of the tree. I think it is worth trying and do not agree with the naysaying.

Here is what I would do if I thought the tree was still alive:

1. Put it in full sun in a spot with good air flow
2. Soak the entire pot in a tub of water for a good just in case the actual problem here is hydrophobia in a hard-to-reach core. You don't know how long it's been since it's been repotted, and as much as it is very very hard to believe that this could happen in either the UK or Oregon (both fairly wet places), but sometimes a tree that has a very dense root ball can develop hydrophobia in the core (the region of roots directly under the trunk). I would likely mix imidacloprid (don't know if legal in UK) into that water to knock out root aphids, mainly because if the tree has those, you won't find out until much later, and also, immidacloprid isn't going to cause other troubles for the tree. I'd responsibly discard the runoff to protect my local bees. Resist the temptation to spray the foliage with anything
3. Tip the pot on an angle after the above operation to help draw water and air through the entire root mass. Keep the pot tipped on an angle any time you aren't watering it. Untip when watering.
4. Do not water this tree too frequently, it's going to hardly consume any water at all while in this state. Item #3 above helps draw water/air through the soil quicker than the tree can right now.
5. Rotate the tree often during spring and summer to ensure even exposure to any weakened foliage.
6. Do not fertilize until this tree is starting to get really healthy. Adding salts and other chaos isn't going to help.
7. Don't spray the shit out of this tree with chemicals.
8. Do the "should it be repotted" test recommended by Michael Hagedorn. Try a couple spots: If you can't push a takeout chopstick into the soil or it takes a LOT of force, then consider a partial repot next year. If you CAN push a chopstick into the soil, then repotting might not be the magical solution and might actually hinder recovery.