Itoigawa air-layer?

[Shoshin]

It may be hard to see in the photo but the bottom section of this juniper has considerable inverse taper and would appreciate any thoughts around possible air-layering. I recently saw a YouTube video where someone repotted the whole lower part, air layer and root base in a larger pot which seemed desirable vs. attaching a smaller pot around the base. Anyhow, would love any feedback

 

[Bonsai Nut]

This tree looks pretty weak to me. I wouldn't try air-layering it until you strengthened it up. Have you had it long?

 

[Shoshin]

A few weeks.

 

[leatherback]

This tree looks pretty weak to me

I do not disagree, yet I also see some whips. Might be some tipfungal issues rather than weak?

 

[leatherback]

With a trunk this tall, I would opt for a normal layer, rather than fitting it in a tall pot, because of the risk of water retention lower in the pot..

 

[Shoshin]

I do not disagree, yet I also see some whips. Might be some tipfungal issues rather than weak?

View attachment 366507

Hmm, possible tip fungal issues. Haven’t come across this, thanks for the observation!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

A few weeks.

I was going to make some disparaging comments, but wanted to make sure you weren't the one who didn't care for the tree very well

This is an Itoigawa twist - a tree that someone with some knowledge of bonsai created for the bonsai trade from a small whip that they twisted and held in place with wire. Do a search on the site for juniper twists or related topics to see how they are created. When done properly, and with a little luck, you will end up with a twisted tree that looks like a small yamadori-style juniper. When the twist doesn't happen low enough on the trunk, you can end up with reverse taper because the upper trunk scars and bulks up while the lower trunk remains thin.

This tree hasn't been repotted in years, and the bark is covered with moss, suggesting it was kept in a very wet environment. Before I did anything else, I would gently scrub all the moss off the tree with a toothbrush and water, just so I could see what I was looking at, the line of the trunk, and the condition of the bark. Then I would lift the tree from that pot to see how bad the roots are, and the condition of the soil. I would also get rid of the lag bolt Once you know what you are dealing with, you can make a plan for the future. In this case, you may decide that you just want to scarify the lower trunk to match the upper trunk, which would be simpler than an air-layer. A lot depends on what the current roots look like.

 

[Shoshin]

I was going to make some disparaging comments, but wanted to make sure you weren't the one who didn't care for the tree very well

This is an Itoigawa twist - a tree that someone with some knowledge of bonsai created for the bonsai trade from a small whip that they twisted and held in place with wire. Do a search on the site for juniper twists or related topics to see how they are created. When done properly, and with a little luck, you will end up with a twisted tree that looks like a small yamadori-style juniper. When the twist doesn't happen low enough on the trunk, you can end up with reverse taper because the upper trunk scars and bulks up while the lower trunk remains thin.

This tree hasn't been repotted in years, and the bark is covered with moss, suggesting it was kept in a very wet environment. Before I did anything else, I would gently scrub all the moss off the tree with a toothbrush and water, just so I could see what I was looking at, the line of the trunk, and the condition of the bark. Then I would lift the tree from that pot to see how bad the roots are, and the condition of the soil. I would also get rid of the lag bolt Once you know what you are dealing with, you can make a plan for the future. In this case, you may decide that you just want to scarify the lower trunk to match the upper trunk, which would be simpler than an air-layer. A lot depends on what the current roots look like.

Thank you so much for your thoughts!

 

[Shoshin]

Thank you so much for your thoughts!

Here are some update photos, without moss (and lag bolt-lol), roots and a bigger pot to stretch out a bit

 

[leatherback]

I keep looking at this trunk and think.. Why layer?

I think you will find that if you use a narrow shari following the line of the trunk, you emphasize the curves and bends and remove the optical reverse taper.

I CANNOT see the exact lines in the bark, so take this just as an example, NOT as a proposed line to cut; You need to work slowly and, if not experienced, maybe let someone look over your shoulder but this is what I mean

 

[sorce]

keep looking at this trunk and think.. Why layer?

I was thinking that yesterday, must have gotten sidetracked.

It might have a lot of growing to do afterwards, but carving it up seems rightest.

I would use Kathy Shaner's method as proposed somewhere here by @Brian Van Fleet , where you first cut holes out for shari, then connect em later.

Using the holes now to remove what is worst causing reverse taper. Then waiting to see how connecting the holes will work to perfect your final image.

As for the lag bolt, if it was for "iron", it looks galvanized, eff zinc!

Sorce

 

[Shibui]

As I read through the posts I kept thinking that this trunk is perfect for shari to overcome the bulges. It was probably grown with this technique in mind.
Then @leatherback beats me to the punch.......

It is entirely up to you @Shoshin. There are always many ways to style any bonsai.
If you decide to layer it can be done many ways - air layer with pot or plastic bag above ground or ground layer where soil is built up to cover the layer - deeper pot, add a collar to hold extra soil, etc. All work well but ground layer is easier to manage as far as watering. I have never seen any problem with water retention, especially as you have just repotted in fresh bonsai soil.

 

[leatherback]

I was thinking that yesterday, must have gotten sidetracked.

It might have a lot of growing to do afterwards, but carving it up seems rightest.

I would use Kathy Shaner's method as proposed somewhere here by @Brian Van Fleet , where you first cut holes out for shari, then connect em later.

Using the holes now to remove what is worst causing reverse taper. Then waiting to see how connecting the holes will work to perfect your final image.

As for the lag bolt, if it was for "iron", it looks galvanized, eff zinc!

Sorce

I was thinking more a running shari to emphasize lines, rather than to use it as a tool to remove bulges. I think you can optically enhance the flow. If the OP follows the grain of the bark, it is risk-free in one go. Assuming the OP can identify the grain!

 

[Shoshin]

I keep looking at this trunk and think.. Why layer?

I think you will find that if you use a narrow shari following the line of the trunk, you emphasize the curves and bends and remove the optical reverse taper.

I CANNOT see the exact lines in the bark, so take this just as an example, NOT as a proposed line to cut; You need to work slowly and, if not experienced, maybe let someone look over your shoulder but this is what I mea

I was thinking more a running shari to emphasize lines, rather than to use it as a tool to remove bulges. I think you can optically enhance the flow. If the OP follows the grain of the bark, it is risk-free in one go. Assuming the OP can identify the grain!

To be honest, I wasn’t that bothered by the inverse taper. The drive to explore the air layer was more from my desire to have an established shohin. I appreciate the Shari sketch and definitely going to sit with that. I have not done any Shari yet and that might be a nice future project. Thank you!

 

[leatherback]

shohin

nah
small stuff
nah

BIG
Big is Better.
Almost always.

 

[sorce]

I was thinking more a running shari to emphasize lines, rather than to use it as a tool to remove bulges. I think you can optically enhance the flow. If the OP follows the grain of the bark, it is risk-free in one go. Assuming the OP can identify the grain!

Definitely running.

Cutting bulging out to first emphasize the important movement around the twists, then waiting for a bit of healing to identify the "grain", or the direction to connect em.

established shohin

Hell with a Shohin tree!

This is kinda like killing your dog cause you decided to get a cat.

Sorce

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Here are some update photos, without moss (and lag bolt-lol), roots and a bigger pot to stretch out a bit

Just checking to confirm that you broke up the root ball and gently raked out the roots - removing all the old soil?

As far as lag bolts go... if your soil is solid enough to hold a lag bolt, it is time to repot

 

[Shibui]

If the OP follows the grain of the bark, it is risk-free in one go. Assuming the OP can identify the grain!

Following the grain is not actually necessary. I have done numerous shari on shimpaku where I made spiral or other random dead wood and the plants have survived. All trees are able to reroute sap flow to adjacent cells so new flow can be established if necessary. The only caveat is there must be a clear pathway between active roots and every live branch for sap to flow.
Shari is a great tool to reduce the impact of bulges and reverse taper as our eyes don't see white wood the same as they see the darker bark. even though the trunk is still thick we just don't see/feel it when some is white.

To be honest, I wasn’t that bothered by the inverse taper. The drive to explore the air layer was more from my desire to have an established shohin.

Not mentioned in the original post???? Only inverse taper mentioned there.
no scale or measurements either so how are we supposed to offer advice when it appears crucial facts are omitted?
Just guessing scale from a thumb in one photo it may still be possible to make shohin from this by wiring and/or pruning the apex to reduce height but only you will be able to confirm that possibility.
Shohin is desirable but I would never destroy a perfectly good larger tree to produce an average shohin bonsai. Always look for better rather than just smaller

 

[leatherback]

Following the grain is not actually necessary.

good addition / point

and.. buut..

caveat is there must be a clear pathway between active roots and every live branch for sap to flow

which might result in people new to accidentally damaging/risking the tree

 

[Shoshin]

I was thinking that yesterday, must have gotten sidetracked.

It might have a lot of growing to do afterwards, but carving it up seems rightest.

I would use Kathy Shaner's method as proposed somewhere here by @Brian Van Fleet , where you first cut holes out for shari, then connect em later.

Using the holes now to remove what is worst causing reverse taper. Then waiting to see how connecting the holes will work to perfect your final image.

As for the lag bolt, if it was for "iron", it looks galvanized, eff zinc!

Sorce

Following the grain is not actually necessary. I have done numerous shari on shimpaku where I made spiral or other random dead wood and the plants have survived. All trees are able to reroute sap flow to adjacent cells so new flow can be established if necessary. The only caveat is there must be a clear pathway between active roots and every live branch for sap to flow.
Shari is a great tool to reduce the impact of bulges and reverse taper as our eyes don't see white wood the same as they see the darker bark. even though the trunk is still thick we just don't see/feel it when some is white.


Not mentioned in the original post???? Only inverse taper mentioned there.
no scale or measurements either so how are we supposed to offer advice when it appears crucial facts are omitted?
Just guessing scale from a thumb in one photo it may still be possible to make shohin from this by wiring and/or pruning the apex to reduce height but only you will be able to confirm that possibility.
Shohin is desirable but I would never destroy a perfectly good larger tree to produce an average shohin bonsai. Always look for better rather than just smaller

Despite me not being fully clear, perhaps because I am only exploring ideas, all of this discussion has been super helpful for me and I appreciate it!