Itoigawa from Evergreen Gardenworks

[KennedyMarx]

Just got this in the mail. I haven't done anything to it yet. Junipers have recently started to intrigue me so I am trying to find decent starter material like this and learn more.

When is the best time to take cuttings? Temperatures here have been fluctuating between 15°F and 35°F. I figured it would be best in spring, but I've read you can take them anytime of year.

Does anyone have advice on how to encourage mature foliage on itoigawa? I have read that they revert to juvenile easily. I'd like to reduce this quite a bit, but I don't want all of the foliage to grow in as juvenile.

 

[quietobserver]

I've had some decent luck reducing them by treating the foliage like you'd treat an overly dense rootball, I.e. reducing in zones or quadrants year by year.

Depending on what the roots look like if you reduce it all in a day it may explode like a doggone porcupine chia pet on you.

 

[yenling83]

Juniper cuttings are pretty easy even without a green house, I think spring would be good if you plan to do it this year. Green house enviornment, misting & rooting hormone will increase chances.

Tips for keeping mature foliage are pretty general. They revert back when stressed too much. keep in full sun, feed, don't cut back to hard at one time, give time for tree to re coup, bare root only half in one repotting session. Good luck

 

[tmmason10]

It seems hard to keep it from reverting to juvenile foliage, but it will turn back to mature when it's healthy and growing again. I say it's hard, because with junipers like this you will probably have to remove a lot of foliage when you style it since you will probably have a bunch too far from the trunk to be useable. It will probably turn in areas to juvenile. Curious, if you've received the tree, can you get a picture of the trunk?

 

[KennedyMarx]

Here's a couple more pictures. I'm uncertain about what I should do with the horizontally extending trunk.

 

[october]

Hi Kennedy, if we take a micro view of this tree and assess what it has and what it doesn't, I think it will lead us to a pleasing image. First, the tree is still a bit young. Second, the taper is not the greatest. Third, there is not alot of area for carving, However, jins might be plentiful. Since these are the things we are working with, we will need to make this tree interesting and captivating by creating a somewhat unique and clean image. The horizontal trunk on the right should stay and be incorporated into the design along with the straight trunk. I am thinking an informal upright and cascade combination. Normally, you wouldn't do this. However, since options are limited, in my opinion, this would work. Of course, this is all my opinion.

You will need to pull the vertical trunk over to the right a bit and/or tilt the tree to the right. Also, put some movement into the vertical and the horizontal trunk to make one fluent movement design.

Here is a virt. Also, here is an example from Amy Liang. This tree is considered pejing like. However, that is irrelevant. It is a beutiful tree. Her tree's movement is towards the left as opposed to yours which would be to the right. I hope this was helpful.

Rob

 

[edprocoat]

Kennedy, if you do decide to remove the bottom right trunk it would be real easy to ground layer it as its right on the soil.

ed

 

[quietobserver]

Possibility of semi cascade the horizontal branch and layering the upright one. No 'right' & or wrong imho.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Cuttings can begin as soon as the foliage greens up. You'll be pleased with the bright green Brent's itoigawas have in the spring. I take cuttings anytime I prune, most take, without any rooting hormone, just in a flat of old organic soil I keep in mostly shade, and water every day.

Mature foliage happens when the tree has strong growth, or as Mike Haggedorn says, when it gains "metabolic confidence". If you're cutting hard, expect juvenile foliage for the next 2 seasons. Even if not, the Itoigawa seems to always sport a little juvenile growth.

 

[FrankP999]

How much of the roots can you remove at the first re-potting of a juniper like this? I have two that I bought last year from Weigert's that need re-potting.

 

[october]

How much of the roots can you remove at the first re-potting of a juniper like this? I have two that I bought last year from Weigert's that need re-potting.

About 40%-50%. If you are unsure, leave more.

Rob

 

[KennedyMarx]

Cuttings can begin as soon as the foliage greens up. You'll be pleased with the bright green Brent's itoigawas have in the spring. I take cuttings anytime I prune, most take, without any rooting hormone, just in a flat of old organic soil I keep in mostly shade, and water every day.

Mature foliage happens when the tree has strong growth, or as Mike Haggedorn says, when it gains "metabolic confidence". If you're cutting hard, expect juvenile foliage for the next 2 seasons. Even if not, the Itoigawa seems to always sport a little juvenile growth.

Seeing your blog posts comparing the different shimpakus spurred me to get some itoigawa. I love that green color. Could you extrapolate on the organic soil for your cuttings. I was reading and it seems like a mix of perlite and sand was said to be a good medium for rooting juniper cuttings. I figured I'd used some sifted turface, but I am still considering what would be best.

Hi Kennedy, if we take a micro view of this tree and assess what it has and what it doesn't, I think it will lead us to a pleasing image. First, the tree is still a bit young. Second, the taper is not the greatest. Third, there is not alot of area for carving, However, jins might be plentiful. Since these are the things we are working with, we will need to make this tree interesting and captivating by creating a somewhat unique and clean image. The horizontal trunk on the right should stay and be incorporated into the design along with the straight trunk. I am thinking an informal upright and cascade combination. Normally, you wouldn't do this. However, since options are limited, in my opinion, this would work. Of course, this is all my opinion.

You will need to pull the vertical trunk over to the right a bit and/or tilt the tree to the right. Also, put some movement into the vertical and the horizontal trunk to make one fluent movement design.

Here is a virt. Also, here is an example from Amy Liang. This tree is considered pejing like. However, that is irrelevant. It is a beutiful tree. Her tree's movement is towards the left as opposed to yours which would be to the right. I hope this was helpful.

Rob

Thanks for the idea and virt. I'm worried that my juniper lacks any kind of base to pull that off. It looks like two sticks stuck together at the moment, not really any fusing that I can see without digging further under the surface. I like Ed's idea of ground layering that horizontal trunk. Then maybe I could wrap some raffia on the other trunk and give it more movement before chasing the foliage back in. It's nice to have other's opinions to consider in the meantime.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Seeing your blog posts comparing the different shimpakus spurred me to get some itoigawa. I love that green color. Could you extrapolate on the organic soil for your cuttings.

You'll enjoy it. The soil in my cutting flat, if I recall is peat and perlite. I mixed it up in a old plastic crate used for table grapes quite a few years ago, and just keep it in on the ground out of the way, and stick cuttings in until they root...or die.

 

[Neli]

Depending on what the roots look like if you reduce it all in a day it may explode like a doggone porcupine chia pet on you.

You never reduce juniper foliage too much. Junipers depend on their foliage for survival. pines on the roots.
Juvenile foliage can take 2 years to revert to scale.

Hi Kennedy, if we take a micro view of this tree and assess what it has and what it doesn't, I think it will lead us to a pleasing image. First, the tree is still a bit young. Second, the taper is not the greatest. Third, there is not alot of area for carving, However, jins might be plentiful. Since these are the things we are working with, we will need to make this tree interesting and captivating by creating a somewhat unique and clean image. The horizontal trunk on the right should stay and be incorporated into the design along with the straight trunk. I am thinking an informal upright and cascade combination. Normally, you wouldn't do this. However, since options are limited, in my opinion, this would work. Of course, this is all my opinion.

You will need to pull the vertical trunk over to the right a bit and/or tilt the tree to the right. Also, put some movement into the vertical and the horizontal trunk to make one fluent movement design.

Here is a virt. Also, here is an example from Amy Liang. This tree is considered pejing like. However, that is irrelevant. It is a beutiful tree. Her tree's movement is towards the left as opposed to yours which would be to the right. I hope this was helpful.

Rob

Rob, good idea...I would try to bring the apex lower to compensate for the luck of girth and make a small tree.

Thanks for the idea and virt. I'm worried that my juniper lacks any kind of base to pull that off. It looks like two sticks stuck together at the moment, not really any fusing that I can see without digging further under the surface. I like Ed's idea of ground layering that horizontal trunk. Then maybe I could wrap some raffia on the other trunk and give it more movement before chasing the foliage back in. It's nice to have other's opinions to consider in the meantime.

You have two options...grow it to fatten or make a small tree.
You have the right idea of chasing back the foliage.
Wire any future jin and fatten them.
Bend the trunk as Rob suggested...
Dont reduce too much the foliage at one go...do it in stages.
You have two options of style : the Japanese traditional style or more natural style...
Which one are you going for?

 

[KennedyMarx]

Neli, I orders the tree without seeing what I was buying. The description said the trunk would be 1/2 to 3/4 inch with plenty of low branches so it could be used for shohin or grown out. I had in my mind a small tree, 6-8 inches tall. Now that I'm looking at it I'm just lost as I typically have been trying to figure out what to do with a juniper. I'm not really concerned with a Japanese or naturalistic style. When I think of that argument I usually think of people styling deciduous trees with drooping branches.

 

[Neli]

Neli, I orders the tree without seeing what I was buying. The description said the trunk would be 1/2 to 3/4 inch with plenty of low branches so it could be used for shohin or grown out. I had in my mind a small tree, 6-8 inches tall. Now that I'm looking at it I'm just lost as I typically have been trying to figure out what to do with a juniper. I'm not really concerned with a Japanese or naturalistic style. When I think of that argument I usually think of people styling deciduous trees with drooping branches.

Darling the two styles are so different and the branch structure is very different too. That is why I asked. Notmally the so called naturalistic style has not defined pads and is a bit like deciduous as far as primary branches are concerned.
If you plan to airlayer part of it. twis the part you want to airlayer and grow it on your tree till the branch is set...like Al's thread...you will have your trunk fattened and a new twisted juniper.
If you are going for the Japanese traditional style you can make a nice shohin, by dropping ptimary branches from the top.

 

[KennedyMarx]

I suppose the traditional Japanese style was what I had in mind for this, even though I had no idea what the structure of the plant was going to be beforehand. I thought it would be a no-brainer to bend some branches down to create the initial branching then work on developing the pads. I know still have a lot to learn, but it is a bit frustrating sometimes. Broadleaf trees certainly seem a lot easier for me to visualize.

 

[tmmason10]

I thought it would be a no-brainer to bend some branches down to create the initial branching then work on developing the pads. I know still have a lot to learn, but it is a bit frustrating sometimes. Broadleaf trees certainly seem a lot easier for me to visualize.

I agree. It's difficult but practice makes perfect. That and good mentors/teachers.

 

[Neli]

Dont forget over time shari can create illusion of movement if you make it spiral like, since when the tree grows the shari creates bulges in the trunk, and if you make it like a spiral and dont rush to put the tree in small pot, You can improve your tree. Just make short thin one first and extend it as a spiral, but not now...do it in spring. If you make a double shari it will change your tree more and faster.
Here are some examples for you:
Consider change of planting angle, it will help also.

 

[Neli]

If you grow it for 2-3 or more years you can do a lot by bending the top section...
Picture 1 is a rough example of that.
P2 is a way you can bend it (not as much as this, yours is thicker) but if you should go this route, do it slowly it stages not to separate the cambium.
Picture 3 will be the fastest to achieve.
Picture 4 is how the change of angle improves the tree.
Good luck!