Itoigawa shimpaku...mame size

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The apex needs to fill out a little...but, I'm really thinking this is worth the risk of attempting to "not kill". Yes, I'm allergic...but, with gloves on...it's so tiny 5" tall x 6" wide and .75" trunk. That it shouldn't reach my arms...to bother me.
View attachment 78210 View attachment 78211 View attachment 78212 View attachment 78213 View attachment 78214
I would like to make a suggestion...
To me, I think you are trying to go to big with the tree. The trunk of this tree has a lot of power. It is my view that the trunk because of this power, needs to play a more significant role in the design of it's construction.

If u look at the second picture of your opening post, where you have cut the top of the tree off with the picture. .. ideally, it is my view that the tree should not be much taller than this.

Now, because of the movement of the trunk and it's power, turning to the left... this side should ideally be longer giving the direction that the tree is headed this way, and the foliage, if any on the right hand side should be very short. To not carry your eye off into the right.

As it stands you have your tree going in to directions and it confuses the viewer.
 

october

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Very nice little tree. I like the new pot as well. I wouldn't do any wiring or anything that might move the tree in its pot. I would let it grow this season and wire next season. Also, each time time you wire, you will probably need to let the wire bit in a little bit before you remove it. Otherwise, it will be a very long time before the branches set.

Rob
 

Cadillactaste

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Very nice little tree. I like the new pot as well. I wouldn't do any wiring or anything that might move the tree in its pot. I would let it grow this season and wire next season. Also, each time time you wire, you will probably need to let the wire bit in a little bit before you remove it. Otherwise, it will be a very long time before the branches set.

Rob
Thanks...they slightly bit in when I removed them...just not unsightly. Will wait on wiring...health is more important to me. I can focus creating those secondary branches.
 

Cadillactaste

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Where's the thread on that pot!

That's Nice!
I like the potting angle.

Sorce
Thanks...not sure why I didn't share a thread on the pot. Maybe something was going on at the time that has me preoccupied. Love the pot...has much character.

I would like to make a suggestion...
To me, I think you are trying to go to big with the tree. The trunk of this tree has a lot of power. It is my view that the trunk because of this power, needs to play a more significant role in the design of it's construction.

If u look at the second picture of your opening post, where you have cut the top of the tree off with the picture. .. ideally, it is my view that the tree should not be much taller than this.

Now, because of the movement of the trunk and it's power, turning to the left... this side should ideally be longer giving the direction that the tree is headed this way, and the foliage, if any on the right hand side should be very short. To not carry your eye off into the right.

As it stands you have your tree going in to directions and it confuses the viewer.
Thanks, I agree...it needs a direction. It came to me basically as is...but the Jin and curved trunk had me at hello. I can also see your reasoning behind the direction you offered. Thanks...much appreciated it. Because other than slightly tilt it toward the viewer and slightly tilt more to the right. It's not overly changed a whole lot. Other than accentuate the right side being to long. But I was going with trunk movement than foliage and branching. That will most definitely change.
 

Cadillactaste

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MRB offered up a virtual...which was very kind of him. Love the more compact version. I guess I was thinking of no foliage on the right...but, see where he was going with it.
image.jpg
 

Vance Wood

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I think the tree should be about as large as you have indicated. However in order to get this tree to function artistically at this size IMHO you are going to have to allow the tree to grow out to develop some internal branching and then cut it back. Right now you have no branching you just have a lot of non woody growth. Without woody branches you don't have a bonsai---- in my opinion.
 

Cadillactaste

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I think the tree should be about as large as you have indicated. However in order to get this tree to function artistically at this size IMHO you are going to have to allow the tree to grow out to develop some internal branching and then cut it back. Right now you have no branching you just have a lot of non woody growth. Without woody branches you don't have a bonsai---- in my opinion.

All in good time...this is a prebonsai. It will get there in time. Again...intentions were always to let it develop more. For there isn't anything really going on that says finished bonsai to me either. ;)
 

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Cadillactaste, I like this little tree very much. I think I might prefer building the tree from this view:downloadfile.jpg
Sorry for opinion, but I like the movement more. And this is not a problem if it's potted in a round pot. Depends on what you want to show and develop and sure how it looks in person.
 

Cadillactaste

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Cadillactaste, I like this little tree very much. I think I might prefer building the tree from this view:View attachment 98838
Sorry for opinion, but I like the movement more. And this is not a problem if it's potted in a round pot. Depends on what you want to show and develop and sure how it looks in person.

Edit: You can see one section I left the wire on that was on still somewhat loose.
Actually that is how I had planted it into the pot...but had turned it and thought maybe the trunk looked better at that angle...here it is...turned as I had originally planned once wired into the pot. Just never took a photo of it that way...
shimpaku rotated after repot.jpg
 
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october

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Although secondary branches are important. Anyone that works with mame or shohin know what a challenge it is to achieve this with good proportions. Its not like you have a 1 foot tree where you can develop elaborate branching. Mame and shohin tend to be a whole different animal. If you want to keep this tree this size, it will have to mostly rely on primary branching. Keeping those primary branches alive, constantly producing healthy foliage and keeping foliage close to the trunk will be the challenges you face. I like the original angle and view for this tree. The tree will bush out this season which will be good. As long as the trunk is visible and the branches do not get too long (permanently), this tree will always be a nice little tree. However, as we know, trees will not stay this small. In about 5 years, this tree will move into the shohin range. regardless whether you want it or not. At some point, when a branch gets long, you might be able to cut back to create a different branch end. As far as pots. when using a pot with 3 feet, one foot usually goes directly in the center.

One part of this tree's training might involve cage wiring. Cage wiring is basically regular wiring, but looser and more for directional purposes. Under normal conditions, you wire a branch when it has hardened off or has age to it. However, with mame and shohin, sometimes those options are not as prevalent. Take this tree for example. It is not much bigger than yours. If I remember correctly, the right half of the apex was cage wired. Also, prepare yourself for the branches to spring back after the wire is removed. Young trees want to grow. You have a nice little tree there. Here's hoping it will still be nice, but not so little, in about 300 years.:)

Rob

 

petegreg

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Aah, now I see. The first picture taken from a different perspective, a camera objective was a little bit higher. Didn't want to make you confused.
 

Cadillactaste

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Although secondary branches are important. Anyone that works with mame or shohin know what a challenge it is to achieve this with good proportions. Its not like you have a 1 foot tree where you can develop elaborate branching. Mame and shohin tend to be a whole different animal. If you want to keep this tree this size, it will have to mostly rely on primary branching. Keeping those primary branches alive, constantly producing healthy foliage and keeping foliage close to the trunk will be the challenges you face. I like the original angle and view for this tree. The tree will bush out this season which will be good. As long as the trunk is visible and the branches do not get too long (permanently), this tree will always be a nice little tree. However, as we know, trees will not stay this small. In about 5 years, this tree will move into the shohin range. regardless whether you want it or not. At some point, when a branch gets long, you might be able to cut back to create a different branch end. As far as pots. when using a pot with 3 feet, one foot usually goes directly in the center.

One part of this tree's training might involve cage wiring. Cage wiring is basically regular wiring, but looser and more for directional purposes. Under normal conditions, you wire a branch when it has hardened off or has age to it. However, with mame and shohin, sometimes those options are not as prevalent. Take this tree for example. It is not much bigger than yours. If I remember correctly, the right half of the apex was cage wired. Also, prepare yourself for the branches to spring back after the wire is removed. Young trees want to grow. You have a nice little tree there. Here's hoping it will still be nice, but not so little, in about 300 years.:)

Rob


That my friend is a SWEET tree! Very well done...

Had no idea about the feet placement on a round pot. I liked the texture of the pot originally and tried to center it with the feet splaying someone centered. (Last photo...original planting) Is that the one you liked as well? Because...I was not sure if the foliage was just trickery...and the trunk slightly nicer turned a smidgen. But...it looks more shaped since that was it's original front.

Aah, now I see. The first picture taken from a different perspective, a camera objective was a little bit higher. Didn't want to make you confused.

Actually yes, it was a different persepective...But, also notice the feet of the pot. It is turned a tad than the last photo...of the angle you requested. Which was the tree's original front. So you still was right on the angle change.
 

october

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That my friend is a SWEET tree! Very well done...

Had no idea about the feet placement on a round pot. I liked the texture of the pot originally and tried to center it with the feet splaying someone centered. (Last photo...original planting) Is that the one you liked as well? Because...I was not sure if the foliage was just trickery...and the trunk slightly nicer turned a smidgen. But...it looks more shaped since that was it's original front.



Actually yes, it was a different persepective...But, also notice the feet of the pot. It is turned a tad than the last photo...of the angle you requested. Which was the tree's original front. So you still was right on the angle change.

Thank you. Yes, I like the view in the last pic you posted.

Rob
 

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Thank you. Yes, I like the view in the last pic you posted.

Rob

;) Thanks! That's what I was after when I first repotted it. But, was not sure if I had tunnel vision with the foliage trained as a front that way. Or if the trunk showed better turned a smidgen. Love the pot...and tried to again...make that it's focal front. Verses looking at the feet. Didn't know the rule of the single foot up front.
 

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@Vin...definitely food for thought. The pot is all wrong then...and,possibly the trunk to thick for that small of a canopy. Maybe a fuller canopy? But the chunky twist needs more to carry it I feel. If it were a thinner trunk. Then yes,the smaller canopy I would not hesitate. It's just such a chunky trunk.
 
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Jeremy

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I don't think the trunk is too thick to carry off this look. The jins tell the story of a once larger tree. I definitely like @Vin virt, but best to let it grow. What is your vision for the tree? Also while a tad unconventional for a juniper, I love that pot.
 
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Cadillactaste

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I don't think the trunk is too thick to carry off this look. The jins tell the story of a once larger tree. I definitely like @Vin virt, but best to let it grow. What is your vision for the tree? Also while a tad unconventional for a juniper, I love that pot.
I'll have to grab it's size width size later. Windy and pouring down rain. But it's chuncky. All my friends call it the chuncky little tree.

The pot...I fell in love with. I was told by the seller to put it into a smaller pot come spring. This fit the bill...yet not overly drastically doing so. Unconventional...that would be me...in all I do. So,not surprising there.

Perfect match...not so sure. But it will do for now.

Not saying I'm not chewing on Vin's virtual. But...removing that much foliage I'm not sure I'm comfortable with. The way junipers strength comes from their foliage...weighing in my mind. But...something maybe slightly more...with the right side bare could fall into play. Chewing on it.
 
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Cadillactaste

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Using MRB's virtual...because of the trunk leans toward viewer slightly. I had thought maybe this. Screenshot_2016-03-24-20-27-54-1.png
 

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