It's a Hobby part 2

Dav4

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I think both high AND I’m less tolerant. Tree progressions where real work is getting done rarely get more than a reply or two and inane threads like this one or “are you a parrot” get pages and pages of intolerable bickering, chest thumping, sweeping overgeneralizations and pompous self-assertion leading to all sorts of shenanigans and buffoonery. Some days its more than I can take and I have a growing concern that my ignore list will soon grow beyond its file-size limit.
Love your progressions, Scott... keep 'em coming, please!
 

BrianBay9

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I'll always be a hobbiest, but I'm starting to find enjoyment in the display as well as working the trees. I expect that will up my game a bit.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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I'm a professional at other plant related stuff. But bonsai to me is relaxation. I am not going to let my trees live up to other peoples standards. I set my own. That's art in my opinion.
Everyone is free to disagree with that, it's not something I am going to argue about. I'll be the one looking at them, caring for them and working them for years to come. I do this for myself.
People are free to critique my trees, I am free to ignore that.

I used to do comissioned art: drawings, designs and tattooing. I quit doing so because I got fed up with having to ignore and abandon my own style and do whatever the customer asked. It sucked the fun out of everything and i'm too nice of a person to put them in their place. I miss the money though, 200 bucks an hour, but artistic freedom is worth a lot to me. Now and then I still practisize, but only as a hobby. Now I can do things without having to worry about what others think, after 4 years of being chained to vague demands and wishes, that's a load off of my shoulders.
Art.. I'm never doing it for others ever again.
 

Adair M

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I'm a professional at other plant related stuff. But bonsai to me is relaxation. I am not going to let my trees live up to other peoples standards. I set my own. That's art in my opinion.
Everyone is free to disagree with that, it's not something I am going to argue about. I'll be the one looking at them, caring for them and working them for years to come. I do this for myself.
People are free to critique my trees, I am free to ignore that.

I used to do comissioned art: drawings, designs and tattooing. I quit doing so because I got fed up with having to ignore and abandon my own style and do whatever the customer asked. It sucked the fun out of everything and i'm too nice of a person to put them in their place. I miss the money though, 200 bucks an hour, but artistic freedom is worth a lot to me. Now and then I still practisize, but only as a hobby. Now I can do things without having to worry about what others think, after 4 years of being chained to vague demands and wishes, that's a load off of my shoulders.
Art.. I'm never doing it for others ever again.
Hmm... tattooing, and not doing what the customer asked????

I’m trying to wrap my head around THAT concept!
 

Adair M

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Intense Hobbyist, although with the amount of stock I'm starting this year you'd swear I was going to start a business!

Whole family is plant people, green thumb is an inherited genetic trait
Almost became an art major in college, but have a bunch of art theory and history classes under my belt for Anthropology

I'm of the same mind as several here where they want to be a hobbyist but want to produce professional looking trees.
Unfortunately it seems like a lot of those high-end techniques and knowledge are "locked up" in the professional world,
And I can't justify becoming an apprentice for 6 years just to further my hobby when the reason to become an apprentice is to prepare you for the bonsai business world.

I know there are those who aren't going lo like what I'm about to say, but this is why I'm so appreciative of guys like Ryan Neil and Bjorn Bjorholm coming back and sharing so much information.
I'm currently doing bonsai on a budget and there's no close-by clubs or nurseries, so it's like an apprentice level education at a discount price, and there's no translation needed.
“Locked up techniques”? Dude, @markyscott and I have been posting them on this site for years!!!

We tend to get a great deal of pushback from the self-taught crowd.

PM me if you want Kirby’s contact information about his Study Group. He’s in Connecticut.
 

coh

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“Locked up techniques”? Dude, @markyscott and I have been posting them on this site for years!!!

We tend to get a great deal of pushback from the self-taught crowd.

PM me if you want Kirby’s contact information about his Study Group. He’s in Connecticut.
That comment floored me. People on here have been giving away content and information they paid good money for (as well as their own experience), for years. And they generally get spit in the face for it.
 

Paulpash

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I think both high AND I’m less tolerant. Tree progressions where real work is getting done rarely get more than a reply or two and inane threads like this one or “are you a parrot” get pages and pages of intolerable bickering, chest thumping, sweeping overgeneralizations and pompous self-assertion leading to all sorts of shenanigans and buffoonery. Some days its more than I can take and I have a growing concern that my ignore list will soon grow beyond its file-size limit.

I have to agree with @Dav4 - a good @markyscott progression thread is worth a 1000 parrot threads. I'm amazed daily at the vitriol directed at the pros from people who have rarely (if ever) had any experience round them.
 

Silentrunning

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I fall into the hobby category and at the lower end of that. There are few things more relaxing than to enjoy my morning coffee out on my picnic table working on one of my trees. I also like to watch others’ progression on their trees on this site. As for the nastiness on here, it is no worse than most other sites.
 

Nybonsai12

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Tree progressions where real work is getting done rarely get more than a reply or two .

Just want to add that I too really enjoy your progression threads. I don't have much to say other than "good job". But i am looking and appreciate them very much. You take great photos of your process. Something everyone here should strive for.
 

brewmeister83

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“Locked up techniques”? Dude, @markyscott and I have been posting them on this site for years!!!

We tend to get a great deal of pushback from the self-taught crowd.

That comment floored me. People on here have been giving away content and information they paid good money for (as well as their own experience), for years. And they generally get spit in the face for it.

Trouble is, when you're a self taught hobbyist genuinely looking for info and you come to a place like this where there is a group of talented people giving out that golden information, and a plethora of people in another group espousing tomfoolery it can be tough to figure out what is a pearl floating in a sea of nonsense when you know basically nothing - it is basically "locked up" by being hidden in plain sight. I've started to figure out which is which in the years since I've joined, and who to trust/believe and who to not give a second thought, but actually having a teacher would have probably negated that issue. Again, relatively new to this hobby, and other than the few "superstars" whose names are dropped in various threads, I know basically no one in the bonsai world - did not even know someone like John existed in my own state until you guys pointed it out.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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Hmm... tattooing, and not doing what the customer asked????

I’m trying to wrap my head around THAT concept!
Oh no, people came to me asking for tattoos in my style because they liked my style. Then, during the design process changed it to someone else's style because they didn't like mine anymore. Somehow they only started researching after I've spent 4-6 hours on designs. It always had to become a style they saw in some discovery/TLC/TV tattoo show in the end.
"I know you work with fine lines and mostly feminine features, but I want fat lines like those coloring books people do with crayons. I also know you don't usually do colors, but I want colors.. And I know you're excellent at making small stuff that lasts for years, but I want this one to be huge, but with thin lines like you do in the small ones, and I want it to still look good after 40 years!" Also "I want you to stop whenever it hurts, because I'm very sensitive, and take a break every 5 minutes, and I also want to drink and smoke in here, I'm paying you good money for that." Stuff like that.
Maori tattoos without being from NZ? Japanese Yakuza stuff without us or the customer ever having visited Japan? Swastika's? Portraits of hitler on faces? Tattooing around an unwashed anus and the customer blatantly admitting she only showered once every 3 days? But at the same time having to accept that when the infection happens, we were to blame.. Dick tattoos (did that one actually, it's harder and softer than it looks).. I've heard it all.
Mind you, this was not a tattoo real life show, it was not a competition, this was a humble parlor with a few talented people that just wanted to do what they did best.
I can ask my dog to act like a cat, and offer good money, food and long walks for it, but it's just not a cat and it's never going to be one. It would be a waste of time and money to try. But people didn't get that message. Not every bonsai master is good at making pots, or working with tropicals. Asking them to do so anyways "because I'm goddamn paying for it to look good" could be seen as an insult or not yield the expected result. In bonsai we know that, we accept that. In tattooing, that falls on deaf ears.
I was nice enough to divert my course for them on a lot of occasions. Usually with a more than decent result, they were just not something I could defend in public. I knew my flaws. Part of being an artist in that field, is sending your stuff to magazines to get more customers in the end. That stuff never made the cut.
Some customers were even rude enough to just copy tattoos from artist pages and ask me to do it 'just like in this picture'. I know that's not a bad thing in bonsai, but in tattooing, that's heresy and could cost you your business. I know a few guys who didn't care, and other competing artists just started calling our version of the FDA/CDC on them as revenge.
I was young it was fun, but damn, I'm glad I quit that business. My back is very thankful as well.
Still, one of the best and most memorable tattoos I ever did, was a plain and simple "your name" on someones butt cheek. I got 6 cases of beer from him winning bets with people: I'll bet you for a case of brews I have your name tattooed on my butt. Good times, I'm glad it's over.
 

Wilson

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“Locked up techniques”? Dude, @markyscott and I have been posting them on this site for years!!!

We tend to get a great deal of pushback from the self-taught crowd.

PM me if you want Kirby’s contact information about his Study Group. He’s in Connecticut.

And this is why those of us who want to learn, love you SOB's! If I find myself fortunate in my future, I too will be a patron of a professional teacher. I was raised with the idea that if you enjoy a certain art, you must support the people striving to better it.
 

brewmeister83

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PM me if you want Kirby’s contact information about his Study Group. He’s in Connecticut.

In order to further my hobby/art I know I'll have to eventually contact someone and find someone to learn from, but this is easier said than done when you have a severe case of social anxiety. If you met me you'd never guess, I've gotten good at hiding it, but the truth is doing anything in a group out in public with people I don't know terrifies me on some level. That's why I practice bonsai alone in the backwoods of CT, that's why I visit arboretums in the off season when there's no one there, that's why I hike the forests alone and why I probably haven't had a relationship with anyone in 8 years. Not trying to gain sympathy or a pity vote, just the truth I've come to realize about myself. Sure, I can post boldly online, the certain degree of anonymity between you and me and the internet allows me to interact normally, because at the end of the day you're just an avatar and some text on a webpage - no threat of a social commitment. Am I ready for a studygroup? I'm not sure. But thank you @Adair M , I might just take you up on it. I've always known that I'd have to join one if I wanted my own skills to grow, maybe this is a sign to move forward.

*edit* let's put it this way, I've had to grow a super thick skin just to deal with some of the "personalities" on this site. I love bonsai, always have always will. But if I had met a bunch of the "big shots" from around here in person back in the day and they talked to me in real life like they post... I would have run from the hobby regardless of how much I loved it. My ego at the time would have been shattered so completely because of my anxiety that I would have remained an admirer from afar and never a practitioner. To tell the truth, I'm still hesitant about meeting a bunch of you in person...
 
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Dav4

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In order to further my hobby/art I know I'll have to eventually contact someone and find someone to learn from, but this is easier said than done when you have a severe case of social anxiety. If you met me you'd never guess, I've gotten good at hiding it, but the truth is doing anything in a group out in public with people I don't know terrifies me on some level. That's why I practice bonsai alone in the backwoods of CT, that's why I visit arboretums in the off season when there's no one there, that's why I hike the forests alone and why I probably haven't had a relationship with anyone in 8 years. Not trying to gain sympathy or a pity vote, just the truth I've come to realize about myself. Sure, I can post boldly online, the certain degree of anonymity between you and me and the internet allows me to interact normally, because at the end of the day you're just an avatar and some text on a webpage - no threat of a social commitment. Am I ready for a studygroup? I'm not sure. But thank you @Adair M , I might just take you up on it. I've always known that I'd have to join one if I wanted my own skills to grow, maybe this is a sign to move forward.

*edit* let's put it this way, I've had to grow a super thick skin just to deal with some of the "personalities" on this site. I love bonsai, always have always will. But if I had met a bunch of the "big shots" from around here in person back in the day and they talked to me in real life like they post... I would have run from the hobby regardless of how much I loved it. My ego at the time would have been shattered so completely because of my anxiety that I would have remained an admirer from afar and never a practitioner. To tell the truth, I'm still hesitant about meeting a bunch of you in person...
EVERYONE is nicer in person then on line... my 0.02. Hook up with John if you can... I’ve known him for almost 15 years through the internet but only saw him in person for the first time in January. He’s a great guy and has great trees.
 

markyscott

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...did not even know someone like John existed in my own state until you guys pointed it out...

He’s one of the best. He’s talented, highly knowledgeable and very committed as well as being an all-around great guy. He had THE best tree in the National Show last time (in my opinion) and another great one on the way this year. He has a well stocked nursery, a strong study group and he’s in your back yard. Sometimes he vends at conventions as well. I encourage you to reach out when you’re ready.

S
 

music~maker

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I guess I'd say hobbyist, but it often feels more like "lifestyle choice" at this point. =)
 

Adair M

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He’s one of the best. He’s talented, highly knowledgeable and very committed as well as being an all-around great guy. He had THE best tree in the National Show last time (in my opinion) and another great one on the way this year. He has a well stocked nursery, a strong study group and he’s in your back yard. Sometimes he vends at conventions as well. I encourage you to reach out when you’re ready.

S
And may I add, he was the one who tipped me over to taking the Intensives. Best thing I’ve ever done to enhance my bonsai skills.

Now, John runs his Study Group, not me. So I have no idea if there is an opening or not.

You might find it useful to go to some shows. Meet the vendors, talk with the exhibitors. Watch a demonstration.

Just beware of Dav4! He’s real nice here online, but in person he’s a bull mastif!!! Not!!! :p:p:p

Well, maybe kinda... he is from New England and still roots for the Pats...
 

brewmeister83

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Just beware of Dav4! He’s real nice here online, but in person he’s a bull mastif!!! Not!!! :p:p:p

Well, maybe kinda... he is from New England and still roots for the Pats...

Hmmm.... and what might you implying about us New Englanders??? ;)

Might be funny if he learned my grandfather raised me to watch the Giants...

If he's a bull mastiff I'll have to pull out my spirit animal - a bear

Some close to me know me as a teddy bear, most know me as a "gentle Ben" of sorts, one unfortunate soul recently found out I'm a grizzly if you go after the women in my family with intent to harm - one right hook and he was on the ground.
That court case was nolled btw once they found I used reasonable force to defend a family member - I only use my fists to defend. My grandfather, may he rest in peace, taught me that - and he was a Marine.

But to myself - I'm just a bear who wants to walk the woods and look after his trees in peace.
 
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