Jack Pine Progression

[PA_Penjing]

I have owned this Pinus banksiana just shy of 2 years so there's not much to look at right this moment. But, I don't want to be that guy who doesn't show his work. So I'll begin the public record today. This tree was collected from some mountain in Massachusetts. I am not the collector, the first picture shows what the pine looked like the spring after I purchased it, really nothing to look at there... wish I had the fall photo when it was even rougher when I bought it. I trimmed it that fall, and have been cutting candles down each spring. You can see in the photos that nearly every branch is going to need to be removed. I repotted in the summer of 2019, most of the soil was earth/duff left over from collection and it was staying very moist. But the biggest reason for the repot was because I had been/was going to be removing large amounts of foliage as fast as the tree would allow. I will probably reduce the root mass again next summer. The second photo is a picture of the tree currently, still nothing but a mess of sacrifice branches, unfortunately you cant see in the photo but the apex is a pretty thick mass of short healthy branches, with some wire I can have whatever structure I want up there. To be clear, I am trimming candles on the few short "keeper branches" and was allowing the big branches I couldn't remove that year to extend. I am missing a picture of the tree at some point with a pretty wicked leader coming off the side.
I made a sketch of my future path with the few branches that I'm actually keeping on the tree. I tried my best to draw the trunk true to form but I see that I may have given it a little extra spice. Because I still probably have two years of branch removal ahead there's a chance the trunk will thicken up a hair to match the sketch. To be fair I sketched it at eye level and took the photo from slightly above so it has a tiny bit more taper than the photos suggest, oops. Lastly I attempted my very first approach graft on the trunk (picture 4) and I'm not very confident it will/has taken. So I made notes on the sketch to reflect how I would deal with this. I won't check the graft until next summer. I wonder if it's because the branch originates above the graft? I couldn't find a straight answer on google , I blame my verbiage I guess. But google has totally gone downhill, anyone else notice that?
To date it's a whole lot of nothing I suppose. I am aware that I am pushing this tree pretty hard, pretty fast but I am seeing nothing but lush dark needles and back buds when they'd be expected. In it's current state it's a pretty sad sight to look at, I will certainly take my foot off the gas when I see this thing rounding third. Will update this thread annually.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Nice art work and style. One word: approach graft not needed. "Normally" lower branch bends down more than ones above. Bringing up maybe not such good idea?

 

[PA_Penjing]

@Potawatomi13 thank you. I don't know why the photo is so poor, never been my strong point, but that branch is coming from a whorl that already has a keeper branch. It was a graft it or lose it situation because of an inverse taper issue that I think I avoided.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I will certainly take my foot off the gas when I see this thing rounding third.

I have limited experience with jack pines, but pines in general can be dead for a while before they start showing signs of ill health.
My own jack pines can take a beating pretty well, as much as scots pines almost. But I want to put out this word of caution, just for cautions sake.

 

[VERMONT USA !!!!]

This pine doesn't prefer cold climate ?

 

[Potawatomi13]

Based on range map nearly to Arctic Circle these can stand much cold.

 

[VERMONT USA !!!!]

Yeah according to a web nursery it's hardy to -40°C (-40°F) also they wrote it's not long lived

So does this tree thrive in hot climate ?

 

[PA_Penjing]

@NorwaySpruce this tree is extremely cold tolerant. A lot of times northern tree species are very sensitive to hot summers (like larch, spruce), but this tree is definitely an exception. Heat doesn't bother it one bit. Also those hardiness maps are pretty silly for Pinus banksiana, there are isolated populations in my state but only the most in depth maps will show that. I've seen some that have their range just barely dipping into the US haha. Other growers have commented that they had no problem with jack pine in the heat, the biggest issue is apparently collecting them with decent roots. As far as not being long lived, I'm 31 years old and the tree should out live me, so that's long enough to get the job done in my eyes

 

[VERMONT USA !!!!]

Wow looking like this tree really worth a try.
I could buy this from a web nursery

 

[PA_Penjing]

Wow looking like this tree really worth a try.
I could buy this from a web nursery

I highly recommend it, they also grow very quickly from seed. Supposed to be one of the fastest growing species of pine on earth, during the first few years.

 

[VERMONT USA !!!!]

I highly recommend it, they also grow very quickly from seed. Supposed to be one of the fastest growing species of pine on earth, during the first few years.

Wow I was looking for a specie of pine and hesitate because we doesn't know this in Europe.

I'm looking more post before choose

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I have a fair number of P. banksiana growing from seed. I would not call them the fastest pine. But they do grow well, and grow moderately fast.

I live in the Chicago-Milwaukee area, midway between the 2 airports. There are native stands of jack pine within about 200 miles of where I live. I would tend to believe they would not perform well in the south, especially areas of the south where night time temperatures remain above 75 F or above 25 C at night for extended periods. But I have no hands on with southern growing, but if you are in the south, do not be surprised if this species fails for you after a number of years. For growers in colder areas, jack pine is an excellent choice for bonsai as it is very, very cold tolerant. Tolerates drought well too. In warm areas that do cool off at night, it may be a good choice. At least in my experience, it is a single flush pine. In warm climates better development can be had out of multi-flush pines, such as JBP, or Pinus taeda, Pinus rigida, and Japanese red pine. In warmer climates you have many, many choices for pine species. In colder areas, we have few and jack pines are an excellent choice.

 

[PA_Penjing]

@Leo in N E Illinois fastest pine when young are not my words, but I’ll be damned if I can find the report that had published that. It’s nice that there is so much documentation on the tree though. I see them listed as good in up to heat zone 8, Here in eastern PA we are only 6, so I would guess that they can take more of a beating than I’ve been tossing em.

 

[PA_Penjing]

My theory is that jack pine is only so far north (naturally) because of the lack of competition. Where it will obviously, and slowly, become less heat tolerant. We have to remember how quickly trees migrate up and down our coasts during an ice age. Here's a neat article about jack pine remains in Georgia, less than 30,000 years ago. It has been walking back up the coast since, and in my uneducated opinion will continue to retreat north. It's hard to say how many times and how long it took for the trees to migrate, because like the article says, we've ruined our top soil, and most chances decent records. https://markgelbart.wordpress.com/tag/pinus-banksiana/

hope that link works

 

[PA_Penjing]

One last interesting fact for anyone diving deep.. This pine was collected in remote Massachusetts, where many native range maps (wikipedia) show it not existing naturally, but much farther north. I don't have any idea why there is so much disagreement about its native range. The map I'm refering to currently is on the wikipedia page, which goes on to mention the Pennsyvania populations of the Jack pine haha. Get it together guys

 

[VERMONT USA !!!!]

Thanks for all your infos guys.
My climate is mid-oceanic, summer are really hot (Above 40°C, night could be higher 26°C)
Autumn are rainy and winter are generally smooth (-8°C maximum)

I live near a French Main River and it being more humidity: fog are really common here all the fresh seasons.

I don't know Which state of USA my climate is looking like! But i had felt last summer like I was in california since the lockdown we get a perfect pure weather

I try avoid trees that I'm sure they will doesn't thrive really well like black spruce. Growers we care trees on pot so we provide better condition but as an OTR driver I could not provide a perfect care.

I just read in the conifer society P.Banksiana are tough plant, so I believe it can feel good in my climate (mugo pines are pretty tough to!!!)

Just I want to choose one specie because I try to stay focus on some trees and avoid the "great bonsaïst syndrome"

Scott pines are perfect fit for my climate but I doesn't feel anything for this tree !!!!!

I think us, growers like the trees we never see in our countries!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@NorwaySpruce
If a tree captures your imagination, you should try to grow it. Climate wise, I suspect Orleans France would be more similar to Memphis Tennessee, or Tampa, Florida. You have a very mild winter, and a warm to hot summer.

Jack pine, P. banksiana, come from the very same climate as black spruce, Picea mariana, this should give you an idea of the type of cold climate jack pine is well adapted for. The only way to know how well it will do in your warm climate, is to give it a try. It might thrive, it might not.

As I said before, there are warm climate pines you could look for that might be better suited for your climate.

Go to the Wikipedia page "List of Pinus Species" and look for the warm climate pines. There are quite a few. JBP and Japanese red pine, Pinus densiflora are perfectly adapted for your climate. But you have said neither captures your imagination.

Look at other pines, perhaps some of the species like P. hwangshanensis, or P taiwanensis, though admittedly they look pretty similar to JBP and JRP.

Mexico is a country that is a center of high biodiversity for pine species. Look into the list of pine species listed as native to Mexico. Some of the Mexican species have very long needles, these would not be suitable for bonsai, but the shorter needled Mexican natives would be good.

Pinus taeda - the Loblolly pine - has been proving to be good for bonsai in southeastern USA, you might try it.

Pretty much any pine with needles less than 25 cm in average length can be used for bonsai.

List of Pinus species - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[VERMONT USA !!!!]

Hi!

My climate is pretty similar with memphis effectively
And I stay in a city, so we have lower frost in winter and a really suffering summer.

I has exchange information with a local arboretum about the picea marianna and they told this tree suffer and are near death.

Does the Japanese red pines is a good candidat? Better than P.Hwanghanensis ?

I'm interested by these
-P.densiflora
-P.Thunbergii
-P.Taeda (seem doesn't accept frost and cold)

-P.Uncinata (really suitable but from mountain, sadly I'm not sure it will thrive normally)
-P.Hwanghanensis
-P.Halepensis

Of course, P.Sylvestris

I'm really interested by the P.Hwanghanensis but seem suffer in my province, owner doesn't know if it because we don't have enough cold or too cold for it.

The nursery who grow jack pine is on the south where is it more warm in winter than my climate.
But a young trees grow doesn't mean it will keep healthy as long I will grow it.

I love the idea to keep my plant along with my life and I would be sad to loose a tree who follow me since many year and suddenly loose health because of my climate.

Munch more interested by JRP and JBP if jack pine is not really suitable for my area.
So, which one is better?

Temperature are pretty the same if I look Huanghshan (p.hwanghanensis) or memphis
Thank for your help

 

[PA_Penjing]

The summer update. Last fall I was feeling impulsive and wired this tree up and totally changed my design. It has a definite better side (front/back) and a hideous side (each side view). My confidence in my ability to style on the fly sort of made me look stupid, lesson learned. It looked a little better initially but as the wire cuts in I have to remove it and the tree isn’t holding its shape well. Also repotted it again this spring, I told ya I wasn’t holding back on this pine. That was enough to finally weaken the tree. So now it’s recovery time. Next winter, 2022/23, I will work on the Jin and Shari. And at some point the trunk needs side to side movement, it’s extremely 2 dimensional. Worst case scenario… I snap the trunk in half next fall, but then I don’t have to look at this ugly thing anymore. Best case, we finally become friends. Posted below are 2 good angles and 1 side view. But not in that order…

 

[GreatLakesBrad]

I like this tree! Nice work. I have many seedlings growing. Following!