Jap Maple Air Layering Graft Question

[RichKid]

Thanks everyone ahead of time for being so helpful. I have an acer palmatum "tamukeyama" which is obviously grafted. Aside from the graft it also has a decent size scar from my crazy japanese maple eating dog, which we got rid of, who also killed two other maples. The scar is on the root stock below the graft. I am considering air layering the tree but I have never done this before and I have a few questions, particularly about air layering concerning grafted trunks. Is it better to layer above or slightly below? The reason I ask is because I have read that the grafted trees have weaker root structures and this is why they are grafted in the first place. So i was thinking maybe layer right below the graft so that I still get stronger palmatum roots? Does that make sense? Thanks for any advice.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Grafting is done to ensure identical propagation of a very specific cultivar or trait, more than the strength of root systems. Some root systems are stronger than others, and you'd just need to read up on yours. If possible, it's best to avoid grafting scars. Timing is spring if you are planning to layer.

 

[chris38383838]

I have an Acer palmatum beni hime that has tiny leaves for an acer palmatum. It has been grafted something like 10 years ago and the trunk is still merely 1/2'' thick. Even though it is grafted, the tree still grows very slowly. The owner of the nursery where I bought this plant used it for propagation, but he had very low success on rooting cuttings, and when the roots took, the cuttings would die off easily. So it seems that the root system of this cultivar is really weak.

My point is: if I had to air layer my own tree for some reason, I would definitely layer it below the graft to keep the stronger root system. I don't know about the ''tamukeyama'' cultivar, but if it was grafted from the start, there might be a reason!

I'm still relatively new to bonsai (3 years) and completely new to this forum, but I hope the little experience I have could be of some help! Good luck with your tree!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I have an Acer palmatum beni hime that has tiny leaves for an acer palmatum. It has been grafted something like 10 years ago and the trunk is still merely 1/2'' thick. Even though it is grafted, the tree still grows very slowly. The owner of the nursery where I bought this plant used it for propagation, but he had very low success on rooting cuttings, and when the roots took, the cuttings would die off easily. So it seems that the root system of this cultivar is really weak.

My point is: if I had to air layer my own tree for some reason, I would definitely layer it below the graft to keep the stronger root system. I don't know about the ''tamukeyama'' cultivar, but if it was grafted from the start, there might be a reason!

I'm still relatively new to bonsai (3 years) and completely new to this forum, but I hope the little experience I have could be of some help! Good luck with your tree!

View attachment 28671View attachment 28670View attachment 28672

Often, the pace of growth can be attributed to a tree being in a small pot. Moving it to a shallower and wider pot may accelerate things a bit, if necessary. My J. Maples fill the pot with roots in a few months, and necessitate/allow for repotting with significant root work annually.

 

[RichKid]

thanks guys for the responses and inputs. Your thoughts are valued and will most definitely be considered. chris what type of tree is that in the first pic to the right of the maple in the orange pot?

 

[chris38383838]

It's a Zelkova serrata ^^. It does some nice brooms, but I still have a very long way to go with this one!

Brian, thank you for the tip. I'll try a shallow and wide pot next spring and work the roots.

I found this info on the tamukeyama cultivar on iseli nursery's website:
''First listed in 1710 in Japan, this extremely vigorous cultivar of superior quality has survived the test of time. Long, cascading branches produce spring foliage that is bright crimson and summer foliage that turns dark, purple-red and retains its color even in hot, humid summers. In fall, the rediscovered tree's foliage, which is bold and more coarsely dissected than other selections, changes to scarlet. The wider-than-tall cultivar performs beautifully by a water feature or enriching a Japanese style garden.''

 

[RichKid]

chris..i found the same info on the cultivar...being that it is such a "vigorous" specimen do you think it would do well on its own roots? Im still considering trying to layer right below the graft, but I'm not sure...your input is really helpful though

 

[RichKid]

a few pics if the tree in question

 

[Dav4]

Tamakuyuma belongs to the dissectum group of palmatums. They are almost always found grafted, but I assume that is purely related to the need for ease of propogation in high numbers. I'm pretty sure I've heard of folks layering them (meaning dissectums) successfully, but I've only seen one or two, and they aren't frequently used as bonsai subjects. I would layer above the graft, just below where the branching is, then let it grow wild for a few years to get a feel for it's vigor. Let us know how it goes. Good luck,

Dave

 

[RichKid]

Hey everyone...I'm a little nervous about that dark patch right around the graft. You can see it clearly in the first pic. Do you think its The Wilt?

 

[chris38383838]

I wouldn't know about the wilt.

For the vigorous growth of the cultivar, the best way to know would be to make cuttings and see if they are indeed vigourous... but that would take a couple of years. One of the things I learned about bonsai up to now is, ''When you're not sure if you can do something to a tree, If you don't try it, you will never know?''. That's why I have a lot of pre-bonsai material like the zelkova: it's less painful when my experiments don't work!

 

[RichKid]

I wouldn't know about the wilt.

For the vigorous growth of the cultivar, the best way to know would be to make cuttings and see if they are indeed vigourous... but that would take a couple of years. One of the things I learned about bonsai up to now is, ''When you're not sure if you can do something to a tree, If you don't try it, you will never know?''. That's why I have a lot of pre-bonsai material like the zelkova: it's less painful when my experiments don't work!

True indeed! This wasn't purchased for bonsai material actually. I bought it for my moms birthday, but when she was moving I figured why leave the tree in the yard lol. So I dug it up and kept it in the pot. Its been about a year and its been through a lot. the stupid dog used it as a chew toy, and it suffered a bit of a drought It lost some leaves but put out a new set, somewhat right before dormancy. I think even if it is healthy, I'm gonna get it repotted into some good soil before spring bud break and just nurse it through the summer. Then the following spring I guess I'll attempt the air layer. In the meantime, I have time to practice! THanks for the encouragement. LOL