Japanese Black Pine from seed

[Anthony]

Okay Folks just did some measurements.

Firstly, what we noticed with the seed is, the sellers on Amazon,
their seed was not as vigorous as the seed that came directly from
Japan.

Additionally in every batch we had seed that was way more aggressive
in growing [ these are now our propagating stock by hardwood cuttings]
upwards.

Additionally, some seed grew upwards fast, but trunk thickened slowly.

Flowing the instructions in Bonsai Today, and using earthenware pots
up to 12 x 5 inches and a few were 16 x 5 inches, the results showed the
article was sound as advice went.

Well we have a few 4 year olds in 9 and 10 inch wide pots, but just 3 to
2 and 1/2 inches deep.
We did not venture into the akadama in the mix bit, but kept it simple
as silica based gravel 5 mm and aged compost.

The compost holds the fertiliser and supplies a home for microbes etc.
as well as water.

Clay is supposed to also hold fertiliser and water but we were more concerned as to
how that would age with the roots say 30 years down the road.

Thus far the gravel / compost mix mimics a tree growing on a rocky mountain side,
and 30 years later, when examined no root thickening.

Anyhow, the 1 inch and 1 inch plus trunks, were in the 9/10 inch x 3/2.5 inch deep
saucers. It's the seed, everyone is treated the same.

The cut downs [ those that were 30 to 36 inches tall with 1 inch trunks ] have all
re-sprouted low down, tons of new needles and new choices for branching.
So if every 30/36 inch gives 1" of trunk. 3 Branches will end up with a 3" thick
trunk, maybe more.

This year the cut downs go into the 12 x 5 " pots to see about the three new branches.
Will let you know what happens.
Good Day
Anthony

Most of you have probably seen this 4 year old cut down.

Hmm should we have done a mame' and what if we had
figured out the smaller leaf / needle technique, for this
Tropical climate?

 

[Anthony]

Here is an example of tall, but thin of trunk -
Will probably be given away as plant for learning how
to keep a black pine healthy.

 

[Anthony]

Here is the eldest Japanese Black pine - seed from 1987 /8
Old image. Not much has changed.

Grown in a 16 x 5 inch deep earthenware pot.
Note even with the branch extensions, it barely got past 1 inch of trunk.
It does however have beautiful surface roots.

Pot was later changed to a cement pot of the same size etc.
To handle our heavy rains.

Now if we had been more aware of seed variation.
Imagine we could have had a 3 to 4 inch trunk.
Seed is also from Japan.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Anthony]

Here is the second eldest, seed - Thompsons of the UK [ or is that Morgan ? ]
around, 1993.
Apologies Sifu, needles were cut, and the image shot in sunlight

This one also had a 12 x 5 inch deep, earthenware pot, but the trunk continues to
thicken.
Also has surface roots building.

The idea with the image was to show the branching.
Once again a concrete pot.
Good Day
Anthony

We are shooting no new images for the next 5 years. Learning about short
needles.

Oh yes, grow and clip.

 

[Anthony]

Okay here is where we changed ----- hard wood cuttings about 2 inches of hardwood.

And the secret weapon ------ in a colander and into the growing trough to see just
how fast these pines grow.

The cutting - very fast growing



Into a colander and then in December 2017 into the growing trough.
objective 3 to 6 branches. 3 at 30 to 36 inches and the 3 at less.
How long to get a 3 inch trunk

 

[Anthony]

We have been transferring information to the Caribbean pine.
Needle reduction is down to at times 4 inches.
But this is a hardwood [ used for flooring ] and needs the
grow trough for a large trunk.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Okay here is where we changed ----- hard wood cuttings about 2 inches of hardwood.

And the secret weapon ------ in a colander and into the growing trough to see just
how fast these pines grow.

The cutting - very fast growing

View attachment 167222

Into a colander and then in December 2017 into the growing trough.
objective 3 to 6 branches. 3 at 30 to 36 inches and the 3 at less.
How long to get a 3 inch trunk

View attachment 167223

Hi Anthony,
Most impressed with your progression photos. Can you give me an idea of size of this “grow trough” you talk about.
I do like the colander technique but am concerned about the roots growing through this colander ( into a box or ground) destroying the colander, no air-pruning ??
Also, the size of the colander? 2-3 litres?
Charles

Pine cuttings - Black, Nigra, Mugo

• KiwiPlantGuy
• Nov 12, 2017

 

[M. Frary]

I do like the colander technique but am concerned about the roots growing through this colander

People do weird things with colanders.

 

[Anthony]

@KiwiPlantGuy ,

Charles,

The house came with built in troughs, about 30 cm wide, about 3 m long by 46 cm deep.
Varies when you get to the patio, those are 30 cm deep.
Soil was a basic top soil [ loam ] now modified with 8 to 10 mm gravel and top dressings
of compost.
They are also used for tomatoes, green peppers, egg plant .........................
Image below of trough.

Remember the ground growing is for thickening of trunk, root and the first six branches.
Once you have achieved this, the next stage is ------- REFINEMENT of branchlets.

It helps to have some sort of plan , drawn or other to aid the memory.

Colander growing if used for refinement is to regenerate the feeder roots to the max.

Colander used in the ground growing [ how we use it ] is as a safety net. When you
lift from the ground, there is a mass of roots to feed the tree in the colander.
Then further on, the colander regenerates the fine feeder roots.

On our side [ mild climate, stronger sunlight ] after the ground we shift to oversized
plastic bonsai containers. This is how we refine.

Thus far, since we aim only for 8 cm thick trunks [ 2.5 cm of trunk diameter = 15 cm of height ]
because after 38 to 46 cm of height, pot/soil is just too heavy for one man to lift.
The trees are hitting this measurement in 6 months to under 3 years.
For some trees we have to stop x cm short as the tree will slowly thicken in the oversized
pot.

So you have to know what you want to do.

As to colander sizes ---------------- depends on what you want to do --------- but remember the
grow trough is only 30 cm wide.

By the way we also cover the plastic colanders with leaves to protect from the Sun's UV effect.
in the grow trough.
There are also metal colanders [ India ] wire and punched metal sheets.
Hope this helps.
Good Day
Anthony

P.S Pay no attention to that silly Gogeerah in the corner with a colander cap

Images -

Trough on patio


ground growing Celtis l

There are also extra zones for ground growing at the Eastern
side of the house.



Celtis in colander removed from ground growing



Refinement stage and large pot

 

[Anthony]

Add on,

After air layering that long shoot, we just took off another air layer on that long shoot.
If it survives another year out of the fridge, yet another air layer.
Good way to keep getting fat trunks.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[M. Frary]

P.S Pay no attention to that silly Gogeerah in the corner with a colander cap

Hahaha!
If I don't move my colanders around the trees will root right into my benches in a month.
If I were to put a colander in the ground with an elm in it The tree would eat that colander in a year.

 

[Adair M]

What Anthony call a “trough”, we call a “raised bed”.

 

[M. Frary]

What Anthony call a “trough”, we call a “raised bed”.

I picture a cattle feeding trough you find in a barn.
Sorry Anthony. Well not really but I said it anyways.
What's in that trough. I read that Wee Trees used to grow trees out in something similar but filled with sawdust.

 

[Anthony]

AND Sifu,

they all have a concrete base, no soil underneath. Pipes at the back for drainage.
Now imagine how tress grow ----------------- amazing.
Bonsai Today has 3 inch trunks on J.B.pines in 3 years.
Let us find out .............
Good Day
Anthony

* Could mimic with rested down concrete blocks.

Ah shucks that's okay Gogee hee hee hee

 

[Anthony]

Hey Sifu and Gogeerah [ @Adair M and @M. Frary ]

Take a look at this not even a year [ presently dug up, cut down and to be delivered - a gift ]
More like 6 months.

Sifu this is the plant [ the zelkova type ] that I was driving you crazy with - apologies.
A cutting of that tree.
Got to around 8 feet tall.

Have a second one coming up ------ maybe a two foot tall monster -------- imagine the defoliation
factor.
If the J.B.pine does half as well, we are in business, every serious grower down here will get 3
as a gift.

Then we can invite [ hire you ] to come and train us.
I will encourage 2 foot specimens.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Adair M]

Hey Sifu and Gogeerah [ @Adair M and @M. Frary ]

Take a look at this not even a year [ presently dug up, cut down and to be delivered - a gift ]
More like 6 months.

Sifu this is the plant [ the zelkova type ] that I was driving you crazy with - apologies.
A cutting of that tree.
Got to around 8 feet tall.

Have a second one coming up ------ maybe a two foot tall monster -------- imagine the defoliation
factor.
If the J.B.pine does half as well, we are in business, every serious grower down here will get 3
as a gift.

Then we can invite [ hire you ] to come and train us.
I will encourage 2 foot specimens.
Good Day
Anthony


View attachment 167322

Too bad it’s not a single trunk...

 

[M. Frary]

Too bad it’s not a single trunk...

Nothing wrong with a twin trunk tree.

More like 6 months

That's 2 years growth for an elm here Anthony.

 

[Timbo]

Not sure how seeds make the diff but i'll take your word for it...My JBP and Austrian pines are 2 years old and not anywhere close to that.
They did grow pretty good this year though. Who knows what size they will be when i re-pot and let it grow 2 years.
Your growing season is way better than mine too. Hard to compare i guess.
I'm looking for a M. Frary tree pics...I can't seem to find any on here.