Japanese Black Pine Grafts

AndyJ

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Hi folks,

Is it too late now to put a graft on a JBP? I didn't do my research thoroughly enough - thinking I need to use one of this season's candles as the scion. It looks like I should have used one of last seasons and put the graft on early spring.

Thanks all,

Andy
 

Blimpsandmtn

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I would say yes it's kind of late to do such an operation, I would say your best bet is to hold off until fall or early winter when it's dormant. Summer and late spring you just gotta let trees be.
Hope this helps
-Blimps
 

Shibui

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I prefer early spring grafts for pine but have done mid summer grafts successfully. I've only used hardened wood for scions. Not sure whether soft new shoots will be OK? You could try decandling a shoot and use the hardwood from below if you really must graft now or look for a shoot with very small candle as a scion.
Does your grafting really need to be done now? You have missed the best time. Why not wait for next season and be properly prepared?
 

AndyJ

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Thanks for the replies, gents!!

No, definitely doesn't have to be done now was just wondering if it was still possible. I'll make a diary note and do it next year.

Andy
 

River's Edge

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Hi folks,

Is it too late now to put a graft on a JBP? I didn't do my research thoroughly enough - thinking I need to use one of this season's candles as the scion. It looks like I should have used one of last seasons and put the graft on early spring.

Thanks all,

Andy
One needs to adjust for climate. However the best time for grafting is just as the tree is coming out of dormancy and while the scion is still dormant. For me this is the end of february to middle of March usually!
The best scion for grafting is the summer candle that results after decandling the spring candle on the JBP.
That means that preparation for next years grafting begins with decandling the JBP which for me is from June 1 to July 15, depending on the stage and progress of the particular tree.
just as important is the aftercare and the staged removal of humidity protection as the graft proceeds. Reducing the auxin within the grafted site by dealing with apical candles also help to strengthen the graft once it is started. You should know how well the graft is progressing within 6 to 8 weeks. Watch for the scion bud increasing and extending within the bag.
 

AndyJ

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Hey folks!

Apologies River - I just realised that I didn’t acknowledge you last post on this.

Ok, so I did my decandling at the end of June / beginning of July and I’ve got lots of buds appeared. Some of these are still a bit on the short side, but others are growing nicely. Should I do anything with the shoots where new buds are appearing? As in thinning them out? I was wondering if I should reduce my planned scion stock to just one bud? Or doesn’t it matter?

Thanks again,

Andy
 

River's Edge

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Hey folks!

Apologies River - I just realised that I didn’t acknowledge you last post on this.

Ok, so I did my decandling at the end of June / beginning of July and I’ve got lots of buds appeared. Some of these are still a bit on the short side, but others are growing nicely. Should I do anything with the shoots where new buds are appearing? As in thinning them out? I was wondering if I should reduce my planned scion stock to just one bud? Or doesn’t it matter?

Thanks again,

Andy
In the fall i thin the buds and shoots to two, typically the medium strength and side to side where possible! The exception is when i wish to grow out a sacrifice branch or leader. In this case i keep the strong central bud and one side bud, removing the others.
For grafting scion bud selection i prefer to choose medium strength buds, one or two. ( your choice) i prefer two opposite buds on a shorter scion as this gives me options in styling and development after grafting. This is a little trickier in cutting the scion for proper orientation of buds and you do have the option of side to side or up down in placing the graft.
I have had the best results with scions that are approximately this size. Buds approx 3/8 to 1/2 inch in length. Scion overall length 1 1/2 inch to 2 inch after cutting. Scion diameter 1/4 to 3/16 inch in width.
The method of attachment of the scion i prefer is with grafting pins, grafting tape, and sealed with caulking to prevent desiccation. I use the bag cover with dampened sphagnum moss over top and masking tape to provide a bit of sun shield.
Biggest problem is impatience and removing or cutting the bag too soon!
For example i am jus
 

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Drew

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Hey folks!

Apologies River - I just realised that I didn’t acknowledge you last post on this.

Ok, so I did my decandling at the end of June / beginning of July and I’ve got lots of buds appeared. Some of these are still a bit on the short side, but others are growing nicely. Should I do anything with the shoots where new buds are appearing? As in thinning them out? I was wondering if I should reduce my planned scion stock to just one bud? Or doesn’t it matter?

Thanks again,

Andy
How big are you summer candles? have you got any pictures? in my experience you are a least month too late for decandling in this country.
 

AndyJ

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Thanks for the replies gents.

I decandled back at the end of June, Drew. I got a good bunch of new shoots - pictures below.

River - thanks for the pictures. Your trunk looks like its started to bark-up? I didn't realise you could graft onto wood that old? I wonder if I should leave my tree for another year or so to see how it develops before grafting? I was going to try and add a branch on the bare section of trunk in the picture below that I've circled.

DSCN0691.jpgDSCN0695.jpgDSCN0699.jpgDSCN0701.jpgDSCN0701_1.jpg
 

River's Edge

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I would not graft that at this stage, the trunk is young and could easily back bud if you grow out a sacrifice branch and cut back. For example the large candle to the left of the circled section could be grown out and cut back forcing bud growth lower down on the trunk! Lots of time to address that if it ends up being needed!
This tree appears to be a four or five year old seedling. I save grafting for older spots that bud back is no longer possible!.
That being said, you certainly could if you wanted to!
Here are a couple of pictures of back budding created lower down by cutting back a sacrifice leader or branch. The one was a main sacrifice leader, the other a secondary sacrifice branch above, retaining the main leader for later development. The trees are six year old pines with 1 1/2 to 2 inch trunks. This approach is one of the fundamental development techniques to obtain additional branching. Grafting is usually a last resort in development.IMG_1450.JPGIMG_1451.JPG
 

AndyJ

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That’s brilliant River - thanks for your advice. I did mean to ask about growing that candle out as a sacrifice as I thought it could thicken up the middle part of the trunk. I’ve got another one on the top I thought about growing as a sacrifice, but I thought it might weaken the cascade trunk and branches. And thanks for the pictures - good to see what you’re talking about.

Also, this area is quite dense with needles - should I be thinning out these areas now?

DSCN0712.jpg
 

River's Edge

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That’s brilliant River - thanks for your advice. I did mean to ask about growing that candle out as a sacrifice as I thought it could thicken up the middle part of the trunk. I’ve got another one on the top I thought about growing as a sacrifice, but I thought it might weaken the cascade trunk and branches. And thanks for the pictures - good to see what you’re talking about.

Also, this area is quite dense with needles - should I be thinning out these areas now?

View attachment 261269
I always clean out dead needles in the fall, but i leave lots of healthy needles for the winter. It is easy to reduce needles, balance foliage and open up areas early spring that you want more exposed for backbudding. My approach is to retain as much vigor as possible each step of the way. When the new candles expand in the spring the older needles will have less of a role to play in the overall health!
 

Drew

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I personally wouldn't use any of those summer candles you have there, they look too green. If I was planning to scion graft your tree I wouldn't have decandled it. Like @Shibui suggests I would have selected a woodier medium strength candle in late winter/spring next year. Something like this:

261751

I have just started experimenting with scion grafting over the last couple of years and I would say start sooner rather than later to build your confidence and learn yourself what best works for you. Over the last two years I attached two scions to a younger JBP like yours and both took. The following year I attempted 6 scions onto an older tree and only 2 took. Trial end error as they say. This is the one scion on the tree similar to yours July 2018:

261752261753

its now about 20cm long and growing like any other healthy bud. If I wanted to use this in the final design of a tree to fill in a bare spot like you do then I would be thinking to cut it back in another year or so into its older needles to start ramification.

I have also experimented with cutting back to see if I got amy back budding in a bear patch like yours with mixed results. The first tree just pushed growth to existing candles with nothing inbetween:

261754

The second one did pop a bud at a node but dont know how reliable it is

261755261756

These a
 

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