Japanese black pine health issue

[Abarnes93]

Hey everyone,

Hoping someone on here can point me in the right direction. I have had this Japanese black pine for nearly 2 years now and this year when the candles have come one turned brown which I then cut off and now multiple are turning brown. I had mealy bugs 2 weeks ago and I have used eco neem oil on the mealy bugs on the pine and they seem to have gone. Any idea what else might be going on? Or it is just showing signs of the mealy bugs now and should recover?
Thanks

 

[Potawatomi13]

Location, location, location please add to profile. Critical to issue you deal with. Also most others. Many questions:
1. Was tree repotted? If so; When?
2. What is substrate composition?
3. How often watered?
4. Does water drain quickly?
5. Was tree EVER allowed to dry out even once? If so how recently?
6. How long were mealybugs present?
7. Mainly on new growth or not?
8. How recent are pictures?
9.When sprayed with Neem? Was tree soaked with spray or less?
9 1/2. Was tree in Sun during/after spraying?
10. Were sprouts very green when sprayed or browning?
Suspect honest answers to these will solve mystery.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Whenever I had shoots dying like this, I usually was able to find a larvae in the dead tip that ate it from the inside.
Look for holes and resin. Could be that, but the buds lower down look dead as well.
So some more investigation and clarification would be good.

 

[Abarnes93]

Location, location, location please add to profile. Critical to issue you deal with. Also most others. Many questions:
1. Was tree repotted? If so; When?
2. What is substrate composition?
3. How often watered?
4. Does water drain quickly?
5. Was tree EVER allowed to dry out even once? If so how recently?
6. How long were mealybugs present?
7. Mainly on new growth or not?
8. How recent are pictures?
9.When sprayed with Neem? Was tree soaked with spray or less?
9 1/2. Was tree in Sun during/after spraying?
10. Were sprouts very green when sprayed or browning?
Suspect honest answers to these will solve mystery.

Sorry about that I hadn’t updated location yet, it’s Australia Sydney, we are just near the end of spring.
the tree was repotted around 3 or 4 months ago with a bit of a root trim but not a lot.
it’s soil from my local bonsai nursery no pumice etc
watered every couple of days I think I used to overwater it before I repotted so now water every 2 or 3 days.
Water does drain very quickly.
mealy bugs where not on long, the tree was fine then a week later I saw one candle brown and dieing and seemed soft and that’s when I noticed them and treated.
these pictures where taken today.
I put the neem oil ina water sprayer and covered the tree using the required amount.
The tree went into shade for 2 or 3 days under cover after application. The candles seem to have gotten worse since I treated them I will attach photos from 2 weeks ago showing how it looked then.
Thanks so much foe the questions taking your time to help

 

[Abarnes93]

Whenever I had shoots dying like this, I usually was able to find a larvae in the dead tip that ate it from the inside.
Look for holes and resin. Could be that, but the buds lower down look dead as well.
So some more investigation and clarification would be good.

I did notice a small spider that had a little web around the candle but only noticed one and now it seems to be across several candles that don’t have any spiders on them. The ones down the very bottom of the tree seem healthy and it almost seems I might have to cut it all and go from the sacrificial branch

 

[sorce]

have to cut it all and go from the sacrificial branch

That might not suck.

Welcome to Crazy!

Seems watering is the only thing that changed, besides the bugs but that seems meh.

Sorce

 

[Potawatomi13]

5. Was tree EVER allowed to dry out even once? If so how recently?

Not answered?

Believe ONCE tried Neem or insecticidal soap on immature leaves of small tree and just about killed it. Personally will not use Neem again! Possible damaged your trees sprouts. However these never really stretched out to proper candles so believe tree was too weak to grow strongly and Neem may just have suffocated these. IF tree too dry could also do same thing. Careful removal of JUST dead sprout foliage OK. Tree should bud out from live needle pairs or just below where dead sprouts are. Water carefully, give good Sun exposure, LIGHTLY fertilize until growth starts then can up fertilizer some. If growth starts let grow freely to strengthen roots, build trunk.

 

[Abarnes93]

oh sorry i didn't answer that one, it hasn't dried out at all. I have another black pine next to it same size pot and everything and the candles are good on it. ill remove the dead areas carefully and leave it to grow freely for a while and hopefully it recovers. Thanks so much for your help much appreciated

 

[Potawatomi13]

Normally JBP almost as easy as weeds to grow. However sometimes..........

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Look up Pine Tip Moth.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Normally JBP almost as easy as weeds to grow. However sometimes..........

Give them to me and I'll prove exactly the opposite

 

[rockm]

Look up Pine Tip Moth.

Me too. Poke around in the brown parts of the candles. Look for little worms (larvae)...

 

[Shibui]

The damage certainly looks like Pine tip moth but as far as I am aware Pine Tip moth is not present in Australia. Maybe another species has turned to snacking on JBP buds or someone has illegally imported an infected pine.

I had one single shoot on one small seedling (among nearly 100 other pines) affected this spring but I could not find any grubs or anything else obvious. The affected seedling now has new shoots developing below the dead part so really just a premature decandling.

Remove dead parts and provide good care so the tree will grow new shoots. Monitor new growth to see if there is any repeat of the die back.

 

[Abarnes93]

The damage certainly looks like Pine tip moth but as far as I am aware Pine Tip moth is not present in Australia. Maybe another species has turned to snacking on JBP buds or someone has illegally imported an infected pine.

I had one single shoot on one small seedling (among nearly 100 other pines) affected this spring but I could not find any grubs or anything else obvious. The affected seedling now has new shoots developing below the dead part so really just a premature decandling.

Remove dead parts and provide good care so the tree will grow new shoots. Monitor new growth to see if there is any repeat of the die back.

Thanks so much for your info shibui I actually have 2 tridents on order from you.
It’s still happening now and hasn’t been getting better most of the candles on the top are turning brown and wintering and dieing and some on the bottom now too. Has been sprayed with neem oil twice 10 days apart. just hoping it will recover. Not looking the best tho. Needles aren’t as green as they where originally too

 

[Potawatomi13]

Stop drowning in suffocating soap! By now would expect to see negative results from that alone. If can be washed off would strongly suggest doing so. Personally would water carefully with added foliar feeding 2x times a week. Hope for best. All else failing zillions more JBP to be had.
One thought: Any chance spray bottle had some poison in before spraying tree not completely cleaned from bottle?

 

[Abarnes93]

Stop drowning in suffocating soap! By now would expect to see negative results from that alone. If can be washed off would strongly suggest doing so. Personally would water carefully with added foliar feeding 2x times a week. Hope for best. All else failing zillions more JBP to be had.
One thought: Any chance spray bottle had some poison in before spraying tree not completely cleaned from bottle?

I definitely wont be using the neem oil again on pines or conifers! I think that could be what has done some damage so hard to say. there wouldn't have been any poison in the bottle at all as it gets used a lot for some watering. Fingers crossed for now will just wait it out and see what happens