Japanese black pine sacrifice reduction

[nover18]

I have been growing this black pine in a combination of colanders and 2 gallon tub over the past few years. It was grown from seed but somewhere along the way I lost track of exact age so I'm not exactly sure how old. I'd guess around 10 years from seed. My question is the following and best approach to transition from massive growth on the sacrifice to the next phase of development. I am not extremely thrilled with the lack of taper based on what I now know about the process but think it should develop a somewhat interesting slant style. I am wondering what the best approach would be in reduction of the sacrifice. The sacrifice is close to 6 ft from the top of the portion I would like to develop for the next part of the crown. The portion of the tree that will be developed for the next stage is ~15 inches from soil surface to the crown and going for a final tree in the 20-24" range. I would like to remove some of the apical growth on the sacrifice and also decandle the developing new crown. I'm concerned with two things 1) removing too much of the sacrifice and transitioning too much energy into the next portion of the crown 2) reducing the sacrifice too quickly and transferring energy to the new apex and getting long nodes etc. Would a reduction of a portion of the sacrifice along with decandling produce the necessary re-balancing of energy or is this going to risk losing the new crown? I've attached a few hurried pictures. Hard to get a full perspective of the tree and include the large sacrifice. There is also a sacrifice located at the base that I was hoping would increase girth at the base and also maintain some strength to the lower portion of the tree.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Nah, just leave a long stub. I cut mine back in March just as the buds are swelling. The sacrifice branch growing from the base is actually more interesting than the main trunk from this shot anyway. Any scenarios where that becomes the bonsai? The internodes are shorter, and you can still add movement.

 

[Adair M]

Nah, just leave a long stub. I cut mine back in March just as the buds are swelling. The sacrifice branch growing from the base is actually more interesting than the main trunk from this shot anyway. Any scenarios where that becomes the bonsai? The internodes are shorter, and you can still add movement.
View attachment 247910

It looks like you removed a bunch of low branches over the years. Those should have been kept.

Your tree SHOULD have looked like these:



These were at Telperion Farms, with 15 foot tall sacrifice branches, but lots of low branches kept on, but regularly pruned back, to use for making the bonsai once the sacrifice is removed.

But, it’s too late now.

I agree with BVF. See if you can make something interesting out of that lower “sacrifice” branch.

 

[Adair M]

Sorry, Brian, it appears I replied to you. I was meaning to respond to the OP.

 

[nover18]

Nah, just leave a long stub. I cut mine back in March just as the buds are swelling. The sacrifice branch growing from the base is actually more interesting than the main trunk from this shot anyway. Any scenarios where that becomes the bonsai? The internodes are shorter, and you can still add movement.
View attachment 247910

Brian, thanks for the feedback. I haven’t thought of making something out of the lower branch. This picture is a bit misleading. The lower branch you mentioned is from the back side of the trunk in this photo and the internodes are actually not as short as this pic would imply. I included another photo for perspective of the lower branch. Not sure if this is a real possibility. Something to think about.

 

[River's Edge]

I have been growing this black pine in a combination of colanders and 2 gallon tub over the past few years. It was grown from seed but somewhere along the way I lost track of exact age so I'm not exactly sure how old. I'd guess around 10 years from seed. My question is the following and best approach to transition from massive growth on the sacrifice to the next phase of development. I am not extremely thrilled with the lack of taper based on what I now know about the process but think it should develop a somewhat interesting slant style. I am wondering what the best approach would be in reduction of the sacrifice. The sacrifice is close to 6 ft from the top of the portion I would like to develop for the next part of the crown. The portion of the tree that will be developed for the next stage is ~15 inches from soil surface to the crown and going for a final tree in the 20-24" range. I would like to remove some of the apical growth on the sacrifice and also decandle the developing new crown. I'm concerned with two things 1) removing too much of the sacrifice and transitioning too much energy into the next portion of the crown 2) reducing the sacrifice too quickly and transferring energy to the new apex and getting long nodes etc. Would a reduction of a portion of the sacrifice along with decandling produce the necessary re-balancing of energy or is this going to risk losing the new crown? I've attached a few hurried pictures. Hard to get a full perspective of the tree and include the large sacrifice. There is also a sacrifice located at the base that I was hoping would increase girth at the base and also maintain some strength to the lower portion of the tree.
View attachment 247905View attachment 247906View attachment 247907View attachment 247908View attachment 247909

I agree with Adair and Brian on the basic quality of this tree. If you wish to try to make something out of it, i suggest the following. Remove the top portion first down to the first branches from the top. Leave a stub of several inches at that point. Wire up the smaller branch on the left just above the base ( first pair of branches left near the bottom) already angling upwards. Next year in June remove the next portion down to the branch you wired up leaving a stub again. This may create some bud back and a bit more lower branching. In the meantime learn how to graft and decandle in order to use the summer candles for grafting branches on the lower portion where needed. Two or three years from now the situation should be somewhat different.
Can be done, only you can decide if you like the challenge and effort involved for this particular tree.

 

[Potawatomi13]

All is not lost. Personally would use small sprout shown on bottom sacrifice branch to develop new tree .

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Brian, thanks for the feedback. I haven’t thought of making something out of the lower branch. This picture is a bit misleading. The lower branch you mentioned is from the back side of the trunk in this photo and the internodes are actually not as short as this pic would imply. I included another photo for perspective of the lower branch. Not sure if this is a real possibility. Something to think about.
View attachment 248169View attachment 248170View attachment 248171

From this angle, it doesn’t appear to be a viable option.

 

[DirkvanDreven]

Nah, just leave a long stub. I cut mine back in March just as the buds are swelling. The sacrifice branch growing from the base is actually more interesting than the main trunk from this shot anyway. Any scenarios where that becomes the bonsai? The internodes are shorter, and you can still add movement.
View attachment 247910

Brian, March is your month to cur back sacrifice branches on pines? I am wondering a long time now on when to cut back sacrifice branches. Doesn't it make sense to cut it back after spring, after it's been adding girth to the tree?
I believe I once read a post from Eric Schrader about removing the sacrifice branch early summer? Winter would make sense to, as the tree is not growing at all?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I think it’s safest to reduce sacrifice branches just as the new buds are pushing in March. Early summer would work too, if the remaining foliage is sufficient to sustain the tree.

 

[DirkvanDreven]

I think it’s safest to reduce sacrifice branches just as the new buds are pushing in March. Early summer would work too, if the remaining foliage is sufficient to sustain the tree.

Thanks

 

[River's Edge]

I think it’s safest to reduce sacrifice branches just as the new buds are pushing in March. Early summer would work too, if the remaining foliage is sufficient to sustain the tree.

Brian makes an important point here! Retain enough foliage for the health of the tree when removing sacrifice branches. That is why i suggested staging the removal and doing it in June after the candles have extended and hardened off. This has a two fold effect, better back budding response lower down on the trunk which in turn creates more foliage to support the tree as further top removal occurs. This timing and approach i picked from some pointers given by Gary Wood several years ago.
My thanks to Gary it works well.