Japanese Black Pine Slow to Candle

AndyJ

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Hi folks.

I’ve got a JBP that I let grow quite long and leggy with the intention of having go at making a literati. It got to the height I wanted this year and I decandled at the end of June but it didn’t send out any new candles for several months. As the temperatures have dropped and daylight hours have been shortening, these candles have stopped growing - they’re just about 5mm long. Will candles this big survive the winter? Or have I had it?

Thanks all,

Andy

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Dav4

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It looks like those branches have terminal branches set, so they should be fine for next spring. I suspect you didn't de-candle soon enough, which is why you didn't get a second flush of growth.
 

AndyJ

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It looks like those branches have terminal branches set, so they should be fine for next spring. I suspect you didn't de-candle soon enough, which is why you didn't get a second flush of growth.

Thanks Dave.

I‘ve seen some odd behaviour from my pines this year - one Scots pines sulking and not growing out at all while the one next to it, treated exactly the same put out loads of growth. I decandled four JBP’s this year all at the same time; the other three have put on some nice new candle growth - only this one did t!
But you think those little candles should be ok for next year? Thats good. I’m guessing I should probably not decandle those next year though?
 

bwaynef

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Peter Warren & Harry Harrington have suggested that JBP **NOT** be treated as double flush in the UK climate. I think you're seeing why. The season isn't long enough or warm enough to reliably get the second flush matured. To compound things, looks like you decandled pretty late too.
 

leatherback

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Peter Warren & Harry Harrington have suggested that JBP **NOT** be treated as double flush in the UK climate. I think you're seeing why. The season isn't long enough or warm enough to reliably get the second flush matured. To compound things, looks like you decandled pretty late too.
Just another reason to move!
 

JeffS73

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I'm over in South Yorks, UK and I have one JBP in the ground, about 6yrs old, in a half shade spot. I didn't decandle it, the second flush started early August and has now (I think) stopped pushing out. The second flush growth is a very nice length, so I will experiment with decandling branches next year, maybe in May.

Young JBP I had in the unheated greenhouse all winter pushed their first candles in April, and have only just this last week pushed out second their flush. I'm hoping this is because they are only 18 months old. Next year will yield more info.

I don't know if any of this is helpful, I'll keep posting any useful results.

Scots Pine - did you disturb the roots at all? Have you checked for root aphids?
 

0soyoung

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I live in a similar climate with summer high temperatures only about 70F and mild winters. After several years of trial and error, I learned to decandle in the last week of May. If I decandle a month later, at the end of June, I get a few shoots that have needles under 1 inch long, but mostly just buds for next year. The "100 days before first frost" recipe indicates that I should decandle about 1 Aug, given the typical first frost date of 9 Nov at my location. Doing that gave me nothing but buds for the following year.
 

AndyJ

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Peter Warren & Harry Harrington have suggested that JBP **NOT** be treated as double flush in the UK climate. I think you're seeing why. The season isn't long enough or warm enough to reliably get the second flush matured. To compound things, looks like you decandled pretty late too.
Interesting suggestions from Peter and Harry.

See above - I didnt decandle late - I decandled the same time this year as last and last year candles grew to around 1”-2”. Three out of four JBP’s I decandled this year have got 1”-2” candles it’s only this one tree that didn’t.
 

Adair M

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Maybe that particular tree should be decandled earlier than the others. Or, it could just be a fluke. Or maybe it’s roots are weak. All my pines respond a little differently to what I do to them, and I have to learn how to treat each one according to how it responds. Bonsai is a partnership between man and tree.
 

leatherback

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Or, it could just be a fluke. Or maybe it’s roots are weak.
This is what I was thinking when I first read the post: Treating each plant the same. Yet one could have better roots, or been watered slightly worse or had a few bugs visiitng.. Each tree is an individual next to a certain species.
 

sorce

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@AndyJ was previous health close? Candle strength close?

I was thinking maybe it's not a JBP.

Sorce
 

AndyJ

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No plot twist I’m afraid! It defo JBP! Always behaved the same as the other three so this was a bit of a surprise! I guess as @Adair M says, I’ll have to learn to treat them all slightly differently and decandle this one a couple of weeks earlier than the rest. My main concern was whether those little buds will be ok over winter and grow in the spring!
 

LanceMac10

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Pull/pluck/whatever a bunch of needles early in the year? What does this pictured branch look like in its entirety?
 

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