TheSteve
Chumono
Right here Chris. We didn't exactly get a play by play but I think you can get the gist of it.
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1571
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1571
Japanese Black Pine Suggestions
- Thread starter shohin kid
- Start date
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
With all due respects Steve, where and how you bent this trunk is nothing compared to where the owner of this tree has to deal with. You were presented with a run of trunk where you could take advantage of torque on two sides. You could bend this tree back on itself like a bow. This tree is not like that. The bend that has to be imparted is in an area where the technique you employed is not possible. The only way to bend this trunk where it needs to be bent is to employ a fulcrum near the base of the trunk to establish the radius of the bend which means we are encountering the same problem one would encounter with a trunk jack---damage to the bark as has been pointed out. Hollowing out a portion of the trunk is equally damaging and risky to the survival to the entire tree.
Klytus
Omono
I had some thoughts on drilling,i have no idea if it could work.
Say you unpot and dig about a bit to find the base of your trunk,next secure your tree or your drill and apply the bit very slowly.
I would have to test drill bits on pine to see which create a good cut with little heat,test different sizes of bit to see if one hole or several works best.
When the driliing is done insert a gauge of biologically inert wire into the holes or hole,maybe apply a fungicide somehow.
Then bend by hand without fear of crumpling.
The wire could be a problem,copper of a good thickness can be had but Aluminium?
Would it hold?
Would it bend?
Easiest way to test is to saw a branch of a regular Pine and give it a go,the spent Christmas tree hanging about a vacant lot perhaps?
Say you unpot and dig about a bit to find the base of your trunk,next secure your tree or your drill and apply the bit very slowly.
I would have to test drill bits on pine to see which create a good cut with little heat,test different sizes of bit to see if one hole or several works best.
When the driliing is done insert a gauge of biologically inert wire into the holes or hole,maybe apply a fungicide somehow.
Then bend by hand without fear of crumpling.
The wire could be a problem,copper of a good thickness can be had but Aluminium?
Would it hold?
Would it bend?
Easiest way to test is to saw a branch of a regular Pine and give it a go,the spent Christmas tree hanging about a vacant lot perhaps?
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Imbeded copper, from what I understand, would be toxic in this application.
Klytus
Omono
Hmmm,i too doubt if Shigo's compartmentalization would be effective.
Not many other wires to choose from though.
Not many other wires to choose from though.
Chris Johnston
Omono
Steve,
I kind of have to agree with Vance on this one. at 1.75 inches in diameter, there's not enough flexibility in this short length of trunk to bend like you did yours. I think this one can be bent, but it will need more extreme measures. The difficulty is that there is no place to hide the wound if you hollow out the inside of the trunk, which is the technique used on this tree:
It wasn't a severe bend, it's the right turn about 2/3 of the way up the trunk. And the wound is very small but the advantage is that it is shielded from view.
With near perfect technique, this could be done on the tree. The wound could be disquised with a piece of bark or something, but the technique would have to be superb.
Chris
Klytus
Omono
Is it possible to graft bark at all?
Chris Johnston
Omono
That's correct. Many famous bonsai have little camouflage tricks like this used on them.
To go a little further, I a trunk jack might work but it mustn't be one of those cheapos you see with two hooks and a screw in the middle. You need leverage without crushing the cambium under the jack. Here's an example of a red pine with a straight trunk that was notched and bent using rebar and blocks. In time it bonded and makes a wonderful tree. This one is quite a bit smaller diameter than the tree in question and with a longer trunk.
treebeard55
Chumono
There's another option I haven't yet seen mentioned.
I agree that the girth of the trunk, in relation to its length, makes an attempt to bend it without serious damage very chancy. But the shari above could be extended down the trunk, not in a straight line, but with some movement to it.
That could give the eye the impression of movement, and add visual interest to the trunk.
Comments?
I agree that the girth of the trunk, in relation to its length, makes an attempt to bend it without serious damage very chancy. But the shari above could be extended down the trunk, not in a straight line, but with some movement to it.
That could give the eye the impression of movement, and add visual interest to the trunk.
Comments?
Chris Johnston
Omono
Well, there's the problem with hotlinked images.
Klytus
Omono
Can they explode in the wintertime due to contraction of fibres,i wonder?
Chris Johnston
Omono
Well I have to say that now you have lost me. Can what explode?
Ang3lfir3
Omono
@Chris Johnson : well done on that little black pine. Looks wonderful. (I seem to remember this one being yours.... ). We (Vic, Daniel, Will and myself) often hollow out branches to add movement, though usually we try to find a way to accentuate the hallow and make it look realistic essentially eliminating the need to hide it. I can see why some artists would choose to try and hide the evidence of the technique however when they feel it might detract from the tree. My point being that in some cases it is not necessary to attempt to hide such work as it can add value to the tree in question.
too bad I can't see the pics... if you are going to embedded pics its always nice not to remove/move them.
too bad I can't see the pics... if you are going to embedded pics its always nice not to remove/move them.
Klytus
Omono
The trunks,due to differential compression and stretching combined with cold contraction.
I should like to see an exploded bonsai,like the tales of rifle cracking noises from exploded frozen trees in Alaska or somesuch.
I'll pop out with my Camera tomorrow and capture a healthy exploded Pine,though it may be a Larch
I should like to see an exploded bonsai,like the tales of rifle cracking noises from exploded frozen trees in Alaska or somesuch.
I'll pop out with my Camera tomorrow and capture a healthy exploded Pine,though it may be a Larch
TheSteve
Chumono
I stated this tree had a longer trunk I also stated there was deadwood and we did have to fight near the bottom. I still say two guys could bend this tree.
Chris Johnston
Omono
In the immortal words of the innkeeper to Peter Sellers, "That's not my dog!"
I don't claim this one, wish it were mine.
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Chris...is that your work on the JRP? It is masterfully done! Aesthetically pleasing, neat, and clean. It's hard to look at trees that are sloppily trained with crossing wires and the like. This is appreciable work...form following function.
Chris Johnston
Omono
It's not my work, not my pine. I just photographed it repeatedly through the years. The tree and the work are Boon's. I'm sorry if my post gave anyone the wrong impression.
Boon teaches us that for wiring to be good, it must have two attributes. It must be effective, and it must be beautiful. Form does follow function in this way because beautiful wiring holds properly with the minimum amount of wire. So it is also frugal.
Chris
Boon teaches us that for wiring to be good, it must have two attributes. It must be effective, and it must be beautiful. Form does follow function in this way because beautiful wiring holds properly with the minimum amount of wire. So it is also frugal.
Chris
Klytus
Omono
Expanding on the concept of the Rebar myth i penned these few lines.
Sung to 'No balls at all'
As i busied myself buying bonsai at the mall i heard trunks bent with rebar explode in the fall.
Explode in the fall,explode in the fall,that trunks bent with rebar explode in the fall.
Hmm,i better keep my day job.
Sung to 'No balls at all'
As i busied myself buying bonsai at the mall i heard trunks bent with rebar explode in the fall.
Explode in the fall,explode in the fall,that trunks bent with rebar explode in the fall.
Hmm,i better keep my day job.
