Japanese Black Pine??

Warpig

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From the pictures, it looks to be a JBP or a mountain pine.
 

Adair M

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It looks like a JBP. You’ll know more later in the year. The buds on JBP are white.

Why would you want an airlayer? Or attempt one? They don’t grow from cuttings, and they don’t airlayer very well either. JBP are readily available in the nursery trade.
 

Frog

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It looks like a JBP. You’ll know more later in the year. The buds on JBP are white.

Why would you want an airlayer? Or attempt one? They don’t grow from cuttings, and they don’t airlayer very well either. JBP are readily available in the nursery trade.
Maybe I misread....I’ll try to find what I’m talking about, but the jist of it was to cut a newish green candle and apply rooting hormone....kinda like cutting a seedling top off and planting it....or is that something totally different??

Where is a good place to get reasonable priced and good quality JBP seedlings?
 

Adair M

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Maybe I misread....I’ll try to find what I’m talking about, but the jist of it was to cut a newish green candle and apply rooting hormone....kinda like cutting a seedling top off and planting it....or is that something totally different??

Where is a good place to get reasonable priced and good quality JBP seedlings?
If you really want a top quality JBP seedling, contact Mark Comstock on Facebook. He’s also known as “Kingsvillegrower”, I believe. Google him. He lives in Old Lyme Connecticut.

I’ve never heard of a JBP cutting actually growing from a cutting the way you describe.

Any landscape nursery probably has JBP for sale.
 

Frog

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If you really want a top quality JBP seedling, contact Mark Comstock on Facebook. He’s also known as “Kingsvillegrower”, I believe. Google him. He lives in Old Lyme Connecticut.

I’ve never heard of a JBP cutting actually growing from a cutting the way you describe.

Any landscape nursery probably has JBP for sale.
Thanks, I’ll look into him.

Are you talking about the candle cutting not working or both methods?
 

Adair M

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JBP are difficult to airlayer. It “can” happen, but it takes two years. There’s also a method done by George Muranaka where he airlayers the terminal candle on sacrifice branches.

But, what the point of doing that? There is a better way, the way Mark Comstock does it, called “seedling cuttings”. There zillions ofvthread about how to do it here, a 5 year contest going on, and the process is documented in the Master’s Book of Pines sold by Stone Lantern.

As for taking a scion, and sticking it in rooting hormone, then sticking it in sand and have it grow? I don’t know anyone who has ever done it. You may be the first.

But, again, why? Start some from seed, or buy nursery JBP, or search eBay, or Facebook auctions, or a local bonsai club, or a local bonsai shop. JBP are not rare!
 

0soyoung

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This season's shoot should readily air-layer for you next year, in your climate, @Frog. George Muranaka in Nipomo, CA It can be an informative horticultural exercise, but p. thunbergii grows fast from seed. There are a number of BNutter's posting about their efforts to achieve a JBP bonsai in 6 years from seed - you're a couple of year's behind, but you might find it fun to do as well.

And, as Adair M suggested, you can buy saplings from kingsville grower (see his 6 years from seed thread by using the BNut query function). Also Matt Ouwinga sells saplings as well as very high-end pots as Kaedebonsai-en on eBay.
 

penumbra

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The pine you pictured is an Austrian pine, Pinus nigra. You can't root it or a black pine, Pinus thunbergiana. It can be confusing because the former is also called a black pine and the latter is the Japanese black pine used for bonsai.
 

Adair M

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This season's shoot should readily air-layer for you next year, in your climate, @Frog. George Muranaka in Nipomo, CA It can be an informative horticultural exercise, but p. thunbergii grows fast from seed. There are a number of BNutter's posting about their efforts to achieve a JBP bonsai in 6 years from seed - you're a couple of year's behind, but you might find it fun to do as well.

And, as Adair M suggested, you can buy saplings from kingsville grower (see his 6 years from seed thread by using the BNut query function). Also Matt Ouwinga sells saplings as well as very high-end pots as Kaedebonsai-en on eBay.
0so, back in the day, I bought one of George Muranska’s air layers. It had a few roots, tons of bds on a thick candle. Unfortunately, my cat knocked it over, and it fell out of the loose peatmoss it was in and dried up before I could rescue it. So, I don’t know how well it might have done. Except it was about 6 inches tall, straight, and was a fuzz ball of needles. It would have taken 20 years to grow it into anything, and, well, I think I’d rather work on more advanced material. So I haven’t looked to replace it.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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0so, back in the day, I bought one of George Muranska’s air layers. It had a few roots, tons of bds on a thick candle. Unfortunately, my cat knocked it over, and it fell out of the loose peatmoss it was in and dried up before I could rescue it. So, I don’t know how well it might have done. Except it was about 6 inches tall, straight, and was a fuzz ball of needles. It would have taken 20 years to grow it into anything, and, well, I think I’d rather work on more advanced material. So I haven’t looked to replace it.
Yet another reason to NEVER have a cat.😜
 

Frog

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This season's shoot should readily air-layer for you next year, in your climate, @Frog. George Muranaka in Nipomo, CA It can be an informative horticultural exercise, but p. thunbergii grows fast from seed. There are a number of BNutter's posting about their efforts to achieve a JBP bonsai in 6 years from seed - you're a couple of year's behind, but you might find it fun to do as well.

And, as Adair M suggested, you can buy saplings from kingsville grower (see his 6 years from seed thread by using the BNut query function). Also Matt Ouwinga sells saplings as well as very high-end pots as Kaedebonsai-en on eBay.
Thanks for the good info!
 

Frog

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JBP are difficult to airlayer. It “can” happen, but it takes two years. There’s also a method done by George Muranaka where he airlayers the terminal candle on sacrifice branches.

But, what the point of doing that? There is a better way, the way Mark Comstock does it, called “seedling cuttings”. There zillions ofvthread about how to do it here, a 5 year contest going on, and the process is documented in the Master’s Book of Pines sold by Stone Lantern.

As for taking a scion, and sticking it in rooting hormone, then sticking it in sand and have it grow? I don’t know anyone who has ever done it. You may be the first.

But, again, why? Start some from seed, or buy nursery JBP, or search eBay, or Facebook auctions, or a local bonsai club, or a local bonsai shop. JBP are not rare!
Thank you! How about Julian Adams for JBP seedlings? Any good?
 

Frog

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The pine you pictured is an Austrian pine, Pinus nigra. You can't root it or a black pine, Pinus thunbergiana. It can be confusing because the former is also called a black pine and the latter is the Japanese black pine used for bonsai.
Thanks!
 

Adair M

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Thank you! How about Julian Adams for JBP seedlings? Any good?
I know Julian does seedlings. I’ve never paid attention to his JBP seedlings. I don’t know if he does the seedling cutting thing or not.
 

0soyoung

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The pine you pictured is an Austrian pine, Pinus nigra. You can't root it or a black pine, Pinus thunbergiana. It can be confusing because the former is also called a black pine and the latter is the Japanese black pine used for bonsai.
I concur that p. nigra doesn't root, but p. thunbergii definitely will. I still have a 'Thunderhead' that I layered with which I persist despite @Adair M's protestations of not liking me to waste time in the ways that I choose.
 

Adair M

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I concur that p. nigra doesn't root, but p. thunbergii definitely will. I still have a 'Thunderhead' that I layered with which I persist despite @Adair M's protestations of not liking me to waste time in the ways that I choose.
Well, good for you, 0so, now you have a cultivar on its own roots that’s not very good for bonsai. You can spend your time however you choose. I use mine to make bonsai using proven methods.
 

0soyoung

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Yes. And there is nothing wrong with that.

I enjoy exploring the obscure and the unknown. I like understanding why. I know enough to know that the use of cut paste on pines and Akadama in your substrate is not magical and that it has nothing to do with why your trees are great. Your trees are great because they once were and you've become quite adept at returning them to their former glory.

@Frog had a question. I just tried to answer it. Then play along.

'til later ...
 
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Just dig that sucker... who's going to notice? 🤣 ...Also best place I've found to buy seedling JBP- ScenicHillFarmNursery.com

I dug up an 8ft JBP last year (with permission) and it's doing great!
 

KiwiPlantGuy

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Hi all,
My photo below shows a small JBP cutting, not seedling. I believe they are easier to root from young (less than 5 yrs?) trees.
As they grow so fast from seedlings it does seem pointless to grow cuttings. Seedling cuttings look like a way better option for radial roots and buds close to the soil level.
Those wishing to persist with cuttings can try this approach - bottom heat and dry top (enough humidity so cutting doesn’t dry out). Should root in 12-15 weeks or so. Also this should be obvious but misting will kill the cuttings as I have experienced.
8E0F9B06-8837-43CE-8441-4B9B80CFDBF4.jpeg
Charles
 
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