Japanese-European-American bonsai myth

Smoke

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I ALBERT KEPPLER DO NOT SUBSCRIBE TO THE MYTH THAT BONSAI ARE JAPANESE, EUROPEAN AND AMERICAN. I BELIEVE THEY ARE BONSAI....PERIOD!

Now having said that if anyone wishes to play in this exercise (only those that believe their is a differentiation need play) post a picture of your favorite masterpiece Japanese bonsai. Post a picture of your favorite European masterpiece bonsai, and post a picture of your favorite American masterpiece bonsai.

1. Please explain what the differences are between each submission.
2. Explain why the European and American bonsai would not fair well in a Kokufu exhibition.
3. Please explain what you see as the main defining factor in Euorpean and American trees that is being done differently enough to define them as such.

Please do not post any pictures of trees with toy tanks, barbi dolls, ceramic goddesses, or trees sticking out lego block buildings. I would hate to think that is what defines American trees. If you like them thats your business.

There has been a lot of talk lately about this huge need to define what Japan, Europe and America does with trees. There also seems to be a lot of talk about making sure that America finds it's way in the bonsai pecking order. Seems some out there may have the answer, please share it.

Pictures express a thousand words. Anyone game?
 

Smoke

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I thought you were an unbeliever? ...but please do!
 

TheSteve

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I would just like the record to show that I posted my opinion on this in that other thread BEFORE I read this. Now that I got that off my chest....

It's all about the trees.
 

greerhw

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I thought you were an unbeliever? ...but please do!

After giving it more thought bigA, I decided that I'm too biased. I will pass and see what some of the others have to say. You can't beat what the Japanese have mastered and prefected over 100 years and more. All we can do it create something different to native species that they don't have access to. I would love to see what an American grown and styled JBP looks like. It would probably look like a poor attempt of a Japanese tree.
Harry
 
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Favorite Japanese Maple by a European Artist


Bonsai and photograph by Walter Pall
hot-linked from http://www.artofbonsai.org/critiques/waltermaple.php


So much realism it borders on the surreal!



Favorite Larch by an American Artist


Bonsai by Nick Lenz, photograph by Candy J. Shirey
hot-linked from http://artofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=125


American bonsai at its finest!
 

Mojosan

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what?

So much realism it borders on the surreal!



Honestly Mr. Heath,
that is one of the most ridiculous statements that I have ever heard or read!
 

JasonG

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Are you saying that that larch is American Bonsai at its finest??? If it is then lord help us, we have a much steeper climb than first thought.....!!!
 

Ang3lfir3

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I do have to say that the larch is a low (while artist) barrier to climb if that is the finest in American bonsai.... its not even the finest Lenz. And Walter's maple is again not even his finest work.

Al I like this idea... and think I would like to play... I will have to think about it for awhile though to truly and honestly answer your extremely valid questions.
 

Asus101

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I do have to say that the larch is a low (while artist) barrier to climb if that is the finest in American bonsai.... its not even the finest Lenz. And Walter's maple is again not even his finest work.

he should stick to wiki references.
 

milehigh_7

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Now I don't know enough to have an opinion here, however this is Al's game so let's all play by his rules. I don't believe I read we were to critique the submissions of others only to submit our own. Let's allow Al to be the judge.


It might just make the game more fun. Just a thought.
 
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AAwwww, how cute, they all lined up to give me a poke......



......and not one had the courage to participate themselves, instead just taking the easy, cheap route of attacking others who do. :D


Well this was a nice idea while it lasted, but I can see it will just be another excuse to do anything but have a serious discussion, so I'll bow out of this thread, thanks anyhow.



Will
 
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irene_b

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Al, they are Miniature Trees. Bonsai is the Japanese word for tree in a pot.
Irene
 

Asus101

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AAwwww, how cute, they all lined up to give me a poke......



......and not one had the courage to participate themselves, instead just taking the easy, cheap route of attacking others who do. :D

Heath, you know a circle jerk with only one person is not a circle jerk at all.....
 

Bob

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Hi Al. Does Japan allow trees to be imported?

Bob
 

Walter Pall

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greerhw

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I think that Species has a lot to do with it in todays climate, what with most countrys not allowing importing of bonsai. We will all have to work on native trees (excluding illegal imports ) to continue doing bonsai. In all honesty, we will NEVER catch up to the Japanese in growing and styling JBP. For the most part I think most species will dictate where the tree comes from, you won't see Walter working on Ponderosa in his backyard. you won't see Jeremy working on California junipers in his shop.
It's hard to compare one species to another. Some species that grow around the world could be compared against each other for quality of work done by the artest. I think it is an apple and orange thing.

Harry
 
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I think that Species has a lot to do with it in todays climate, what with most countrys not allowing importing of bonsai. We will all have to work on native trees (excluding illegal imports ) to continue doing bonsai. In all honesty, we will NEVER catch up to the Japanese in growing and styling JBP. For the most part I think most species will dictate where the tree comes from, you won't see Walter working on Ponderosa in his backyard. you won't see Jeremy working on California junipers in his shop.
It's hard to compare one species to another. Some species that grow around the world could be compared against each other for quality of work done by the artest. I think it is an apple and orange thing.

Harry

Harry,
I could not disagree with you more. While we don't have trees with the generations of work done on them that they have in Japan, I assure you that more and more JBP here in the states are approaching that level. The question is, how much of "American bonsai" will be dedicated to nursery grown bonsa material, and how much to collected material?

The JBPs you see everywhere are almost all grown from seed specifically for bonsai. The few collected JBP in Japan are highly prized.

Walter, don't you have some Ponderosa pines at home?
 

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