Japanese Maple Advice

sfeagan

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I dug this about three years ago out of a friend's landscape. I got multiple seedlings that were growing under a nature JM. I've just been letting it grow but now I'm thinking it's time to get it into some bonsai soil and start getting a basic design. I'm stumped about what I should get rid of for a main design. I'm not good of visualizing a future design. First thought was removing the two smaller uprights and making it a tree that's leaning and using the main trunk. Second I thought about air layering the main just above the shoot at the old wound. I think I'll definitely remove the lower part. Any thoughts of direction?
 

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Adamski77

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It's tough material... nebari is weird, straight sections on trunk/branches... if you're really committed to it you probably should focus on nebari first... start fixing some of these thick roots... alternatively pulling it out even higher and making it root-over-rock potentially. Top will have to be cut somewhat short anyway so wouldn't worry about it now. Any choice you make I think first you need some vision for the tree... like for any other tree. Once you have this than you can search for advise 'if' and 'how' to get to what you plan.
 

Cadillactaste

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I disagree with the root over rock. That needs set with young malleable roots. So they cling to the rock. Those thick roots will never conform to a rock.

Ground layer it would produce better nebari. If they don't bother you. Then enjoy it as is. But ... no to root over rock. Sorry...If unable to execute it properly. It will always look forced and poorly done. I would rather see roots as is...than forced into something that is pathetic at best.


IMG_20221229_160053_209.jpg
 

0soyoung

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I'm not good of visualizing a future design.
Me either. In fact a large part of why I took up this hobby was to learn how to make a pleasing image. I am driven by the memory of looking at an abstract picture and commenting to my (now) wife that I really liked what I was looking at. She asked 'You know why you like it, don't you?' All I had to say was ... 🤔 ... no. Then she proceeded to explain it to me. 🤔

I start here https://www.bonsainut.com/attachments/20230328_185610-jpg.478973/ and ask myself if this is interesting. Ummm, maybe, but there is that pruning wound. Would it look good as an uro (hole in the trunk)? Meh, probably not. Even when it is eventually grown over (by letting the the trunk/stem continue to run), it is not likely to be anything other than a distraction. So what do we have by looking at the base of the tree from another side (so that this wound is not visible)?

On the opposite side we see this: SharedScreenshot1.jpg An eye poker; That is, branch coming straight at me (yikes!). But we could turn it a little bit this way or that to alleviate that problem. Now, what might be interesting? That branch coming forward has a very low node, which means we could prune it to get buds to release and grow two new shoots from it. This would make for a short little tree that shows off (or will focus attention on those roots - are those interesting? I suppose they could, if we try t make something like seen in Beetlejuice (one of my fav movies, btw). https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url...ved=0CA8QjRxqFwoTCMDeqtqDgP4CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE.

There, otherwise, doesn't seem to be anything that leads to an interesting bonsai base and trunk here, so lets look elsewhere. You can air layer to make roots wherever you would like (in principle, anyway). What we want to look for is a spot where you say, 'this is nice, it would be cool if this stem was coming out of the ground right here. There is a node about 4 (maybe 6) inches up where the lowest branches might be, where the trunk could them move this way or that. One makes taper by 'chopping' just above a node, then growing on of the stems to be the next section of the trunk (the trunk below won't thicken much until this shoot from it is nearly as thick). If one succeeded making air layers by girdling the stem at the two points indicated in red, SharedScreenshot2.jpg the chunk in between would pretty much be what I just described. Do it now, and you could have it, and the piece above potted before fall. You could screw each to a board when you repot them in spring 2024 (fresh adventitious roots are usually too fragile to do this stuff immediately) and be on the road to developing great root flare (or nebari). If you're 'seeing it' during this season, you could even carefully wire that shoot (now or this summer) to go where you imagine it should to make an interesting future trunk line.

Meanwhile, let those other stems grow/thicken. Maybe you find something more. At any rate, this is my/the process.

Fundamentally, you are trying to find something that is, or that you can make into, an interesting trunk. Everything else can be grown from it to make it look good. IMO, the most interesting parts are what I see through the foliage - little peeks here and there. But I think my eye and everyone else's goes to the trunk and nebari below. Look at trees you like and ask yourself why it is interesting. Try to make a tree that does that. It probably doesn't turn out well. Ask yourself why. Try to change it so that it looks better. Yada, Yada, Yada. This is how I do bonsai and I think it is fun. Now a few smile back at me. They were so ugly for so long. Most still are.

Ansel Adam's didn't take only a few hundred fabulous photographs. He took thousands and most were trash. It is the price for getting there.
A hidden benefit of bonsai (provided that you keep it alive) is that you can keep trying with the same tree, again and again and again, until you get it right. Don't limit yourself to just one. It will come.
 

0soyoung

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I got multiple seedlings that were growing under a nature JM. I've just been letting it grow but now I'm thinking it's time to get it into some bonsai soil and start getting a basic design.
This brings up yet another possibility= a group or forest planting. Interestingly, crappy trees for a bonsai are very often good material for group/forest plantings, IMHO. One wants fairly straight trunks of varying thicknesses - shorter and thinner ones in back to emulate trees far away in the background. PXL_20221225_200755184 (1).jpg

If you like this idea, you could maniacally make air layers this year and make your forest in spring 2024 and then fiddle some more with the remnants of your trees during the following summer/fall/winter/etc.
 

sfeagan

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Me either. In fact a large part of why I took up this hobby was to learn how to make a pleasing image. I am driven by the memory of looking at an abstract picture and commenting to my (now) wife that I really liked what I was looking at. She asked 'You know why you like it, don't you?' All I had to say was ... 🤔 ... no. Then she proceeded to explain it to me. 🤔

I start here https://www.bonsainut.com/attachments/20230328_185610-jpg.478973/ and ask myself if this is interesting. Ummm, maybe, but there is that pruning wound. Would it look good as an uro (hole in the trunk)? Meh, probably not. Even when it is eventually grown over (by letting the the trunk/stem continue to run), it is not likely to be anything other than a distraction. So what do we have by looking at the base of the tree from another side (so that this wound is not visible)?

On the opposite side we see this: View attachment 479043 An eye poker; That is, branch coming straight at me (yikes!). But we could turn it a little bit this way or that to alleviate that problem. Now, what might be interesting? That branch coming forward has a very low node, which means we could prune it to get buds to release and grow two new shoots from it. This would make for a short little tree that shows off (or will focus attention on those roots - are those interesting? I suppose they could, if we try t make something like seen in Beetlejuice (one of my fav movies, btw). https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://bogleech.com/scrapbook/beetlejuiceart&psig=AOvVaw2doIF01Ul-6fidjkjkpCe9&ust=1680141159365000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CA8QjRxqFwoTCMDeqtqDgP4CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE.

There, otherwise, doesn't seem to be anything that leads to an interesting bonsai base and trunk here, so lets look elsewhere. You can air layer to make roots wherever you would like (in principle, anyway). What we want to look for is a spot where you say, 'this is nice, it would be cool if this stem was coming out of the ground right here. There is a node about 4 (maybe 6) inches up where the lowest branches might be, where the trunk could them move this way or that. One makes taper by 'chopping' just above a node, then growing on of the stems to be the next section of the trunk (the trunk below won't thicken much until this shoot from it is nearly as thick). If one succeeded making air layers by girdling the stem at the two points indicated in red, View attachment 479059 the chunk in between would pretty much be what I just described. Do it now, and you could have it, and the piece above potted before fall. You could screw each to a board when you repot them in spring 2024 (fresh adventitious roots are usually too fragile to do this stuff immediately) and be on the road to developing great root flare (or nebari). If you're 'seeing it' during this season, you could even carefully wire that shoot (now or this summer) to go where you imagine it should to make an interesting future trunk line.

Meanwhile, let those other stems grow/thicken. Maybe you find something more. At any rate, this is my/the process.

Fundamentally, you are trying to find something that is, or that you can make into, an interesting trunk. Everything else can be grown from it to make it look good. IMO, the most interesting parts are what I see through the foliage - little peeks here and there. But I think my eye and everyone else's goes to the trunk and nebari below. Look at trees you like and ask yourself why it is interesting. Try to make a tree that does that. It probably doesn't turn out well. Ask yourself why. Try to change it so that it looks better. Yada, Yada, Yada. This is how I do bonsai and I think it is fun. Now a few smile back at me. They were so ugly for so long. Most still are.

Ansel Adam's didn't take only a few hundred fabulous photographs. He took thousands and most were trash. It is the price for getting there.
A hidden benefit of bonsai (provided that you keep it alive) is that you can keep trying with the same tree, again and again and again, until you get it right. Don't limit yourself to just one. It will come.
Thank you for the advice! I really wish I could just buy a tree that looks like what I want but my budget doesn't allow that. That being said I really enjoy growing trees from seedlings, seed, and making air layers. The hard part is throwing bonsai into the mix and trying to making something worth looking at.
 

Cadillactaste

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Thank you for the advice! I really wish I could just buy a tree that looks like what I want but my budget doesn't allow that. That being said I really enjoy growing trees from seedlings, seed, and making air layers. The hard part is throwing bonsai into the mix and trying to making something worth looking at.
I save...I've a "kitty"...a jar my husband tossed money in every paycheck he cashes for me to have play money. I buy anything I want...with no discussions on how I will spend it.

Now some will do that to save for vacations. I've a few friends who do that. This mindset...budget doesn't allow for it. I believe...can be changed to...I just need to save up for it. 😉

*Happy enabler I am. 🙃
 

rockm

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Don't try to force this tree into something it doesn't want to be. Forget root over rock, too late in its growth to try to force it. Roots are too thick and angular to grip a rock in a convincing way. It will just look odd.

Also forget about existing branching. It's too coarse and upright to be of much use.

The future nebari of this tree is already present. It's only weird looking because it sits too high at this point. All you have to do is get rid of the "stilted" look of the existing roots is lower the tree's trunk, so the root crown is level with the soil. Score the trunk at that level a bit, cover with sphagnum moss, try to get more roots to develop there.

Once that's done (could take a year or two to get decent roots to develop), I'd use the top rightward extension to build the trunk. This trunk is shohin sized, not large at all. Best bonsai are the smallest you can make with what you have. The "final" tree will lean towards the right. Remove all other branching. Chop the extension trunk at least in half to the existing shoot (a more drastic chop would be better--you can use backbudding from that chop to begin creating a new apex.
 

dbonsaiw

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I think it could be a cool little tree one day. The nebari looks ok to me - perhaps just add some more soil to improve the look. The current branches aren't doing anything for the design of the tree. Perhaps if the branches were pruned back you could encourage back budding lower down. In the first pic the tree is leaning to the left. If you can get a shoot growing lower down and grow it to the right, perhaps you can start to build an informal upright from there.
 
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