Japanese Maple Development

[AndyJ]

Hey folks.

I’ve got what is probably a really dumb question but here goes anyway! When you do a trunk chop on a tree, how do you select the shoot that you want to use to take on the new trunk line the following spring? In my example, below (please excuse the crap graphic!),

- “A” is a four year old tree that was trunk chopped
- “B” shows the resulting buds that appear after trunk chop and
- “C” where I want the tree to grow

I want my new leader to grow up and off to the right and create one of those really nice transitions - my logic says that to do this, I should select shoot “2”. However, if I do this, what happens to trunk “z” to the left of shoot “2”? If I select shoot ”1” do I wire it over the top of the top of the trunk “z”? Won’t this cause a bulge?

If my chopped trunk doesn’t produce shoots “1” & “2” but shoots “3” & “4” instead, what do I do then?

Apologies if this is really obvious - am I just making it more complicated than it actually is?!

Thanks all

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

And the answer is: "YES"
sorry, just teasing a little.

Maples are deciduous, the are not pine trees. Images A and B are right on to what usually happens. The amount of budding you will get in image B will vary widely, but the image you created is in the realm of realistic.

C - This is a pine tree solution. For a maple I would select 2 buds, and develop twin sub-trunks. If you look at a maple in the landscape, more often than not the trunks will divide into 2 sub-trunks, then at some height further up these 2 sub-trunks will divide into 2 more each, for a total of 4 sub-trunks. These will continue to gain height, and arc outwards eventually to form a rounded canopy, much like a wine glass. Maple trees do not normally narrow to a single point on top.

The flat cut of B, you will at some point, a year to 3 or so years later go back to and cut the deadwood to a 'V' shaped notch if you allowed 2 sub-trunks to develop, or if you did opt for a single trunk, you will slice it at a diagonal, removing deadwood until you find the live cambium, so that the wound can heal and the bark roll over.

Basically you have the right idea. If only buds 5 & 6 develop, you have a dead stub above them, after a couple years you go back with concave cutters, or other tool, saw if the stump is large enough, an exacto knife if the stub is small, and carve out the dead wood to create a wound that the bark can roll over. The situation of only buds 5 & 6, or buds 3 & 4 forming is common, using cut past, the clay putty type will help with getting more frequent buds 1 & 2 to form.

 

[BobbyLane]

Just comes down to what type of tree you want, do you want a broom or do you want an informal upright


taking pics helps to decide where future cuts and chops will be made if growing in the field. also a sharp pair of cutters.

 

[clem]

New shoots appear on the nodes so you will probably have shoots on the same level (node) and maybe other shoots on another node below. Before to cut, it is better to locate the nodes on your trunk, if it is still possible to see them, and to let a stub above the node. Try to select a new leader for the trunk line on the side or on the side-front to let the scar on the back (not visible)
I prefer to do those cut in summer because no sapp issue and good budding within 3 weeks

 

[BobbyLane]

ive found with maples that new nodes will sprout or appear from each ring...if the tree is healthy
i would say to locate the 'rings' on the trunk in regards to maples of course.

 

[clem]

yes by node i meant ring : the horizontal line on the trunk/branch. You can have a lot of new shoots on each node/ring ->

 

[JBP_85]

And the answer is: "YES"
sorry, just teasing a little.

Maples are deciduous, the are not pine trees. Images A and B are right on to what usually happens. The amount of budding you will get in image B will vary widely, but the image you created is in the realm of realistic.

C - This is a pine tree solution. For a maple I would select 2 buds, and develop twin sub-trunks. If you look at a maple in the landscape, more often than not the trunks will divide into 2 sub-trunks, then at some height further up these 2 sub-trunks will divide into 2 more each, for a total of 4 sub-trunks. These will continue to gain height, and arc outwards eventually to form a rounded canopy, much like a wine glass. Maple trees do not normally narrow to a single point on top.

The flat cut of B, you will at some point, a year to 3 or so years later go back to and cut the deadwood to a 'V' shaped notch if you allowed 2 sub-trunks to develop, or if you did opt for a single trunk, you will slice it at a diagonal, removing deadwood until you find the live cambium, so that the wound can heal and the bark roll over.

Basically you have the right idea. If only buds 5 & 6 develop, you have a dead stub above them, after a couple years you go back with concave cutters, or other tool, saw if the stump is large enough, an exacto knife if the stub is small, and carve out the dead wood to create a wound that the bark can roll over. The situation of only buds 5 & 6, or buds 3 & 4 forming is common, using cut past, the clay putty type will help with getting more frequent buds 1 & 2 to form.

Just wanted to say thanks for asking this question. I’ve had the same question, though I’m still a while away from putting this into practice.

 

[SeanS]

Best outcome is you get a pair of opposing buds on either side of the trunk (1 & 2, 3 & 4, 5 & 6) so that you can wire one of the shoots upwards to form the next trunk section and use the other bud to create your first branch (which will be on the outside of the eventual trunk curve), and it will hopefully stop too much die back creeping down the trunk from the chop site

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

If you are playing "build a deciduous tree" from the ground up. As a general guide, the first 1/3 of the distance from the root is trunk. It can be trunk & first primary sub-trunks. I say "distance from the roots" instead of "as you go up", because not all trees are perfectly upright, in fact few are perfectly upright. Second third of the distance from the trunk is where all the main branching happens. The third one third of the distance from from the roots is where the fine branches and leaves are. This is a generalized plan, but if you follow it the results will be pleasing. You can deviate from this plan, it is not a hard and fast rule, but if you stick to it, it will work.

 

[Shibui]

If my chopped trunk doesn’t produce shoots “1” & “2” but shoots “3” & “4” instead, what do I do then?

Back to the original question. If buds grow from 3 and 4 you wait until the new shoots are strong then recut the trunk close to the new branch you want to keep. I find it is better to make the original trunk chop just a little above the desired buds to allow for possible dieback round the cut then cut back again after the new shoots are growing well. Recutting too early or too close can sometimes kill the new shoots.

 

[AndyJ]

And the answer is: "YES"
sorry, just teasing a little.

Thanks Leo - that made me laugh!!

For a maple I would select 2 buds, and develop twin sub-trunks. If you look at a maple in the landscape, more often than not the trunks will divide into 2 sub-trunks, then at some height further up these 2 sub-trunks will divide into 2 more each, for a total of 4 sub-trunks. These will continue to gain height, and arc outwards eventually to form a rounded canopy, much like a wine glass. Maple trees do not normally narrow to a single point on top.

The flat cut of B, you will at some point, a year to 3 or so years later go back to and cut the deadwood to a 'V' shaped notch if you allowed 2 sub-trunks to develop, or if you did opt for a single trunk, you will slice it at a diagonal, removing deadwood until you find the live cambium, so that the wound can heal and the bark roll over.

Oh, ok - I see that now. Thank makes a lot of sense. I couldn’t see in my mind how you got that transition. Thanks Leo.

 

[AndyJ]

ive found with maples that new nodes will sprout or appear from each ring...if the tree is healthy
i would say to locate the 'rings' on the trunk in regards to maples of course.

I’ve seen this in my maples - particularly the standard green one that I’ve got

 

[AndyJ]

If you are playing "build a deciduous tree" from the ground up. As a general guide, the first 1/3 of the distance from the root is trunk. It can be trunk & first primary sub-trunks. I say "distance from the roots" instead of "as you go up", because not all trees are perfectly upright, in fact few are perfectly upright. Second third of the distance from the trunk is where all the main branching happens. The third one third of the distance from from the roots is where the fine branches and leaves are. This is a generalized plan, but if you follow it the results will be pleasing. You can deviate from this plan, it is not a hard and fast rule, but if you stick to it, it will work.

I’ve cut two trees back this year - a standard green and a Beni-Maiko. One I cut about 2” from the nebari - the other is about 6” from the nebari. Both trees were ram-rod straight, no movement at all. The reason I cut them was to introduce some movement and make the trees look more interesting. Have I made a mistake with this? Can I let a couple of shoots grow and use them as additional trunk extensions (as you outlined above?)? Or will one of these shoots have to be a branch. Otherwise I’m thinking I’ve got a couple of short shohins!!

 

[AndyJ]

Back to the original question. If buds grow from 3 and 4 you wait until the new shoots are strong then recut the trunk close to the new branch you want to keep. I find it is better to make the original trunk chop just a little above the desired buds to allow for possible dieback round the cut then cut back again after the new shoots are growing well. Recutting too early or too close can sometimes kill the new shoots.

Thnaks Shibui. I’ve got a good inch or so from the top of the cut to the first ring - will that be enough?

 

[AndyJ]

Just comes down to what type of tree you want, do you want a broom or do you want an informal upright
View attachment 342801View attachment 342802

taking pics helps to decide where future cuts and chops will be made if growing in the field. also a sharp pair of cutters.

Thanks for the pictures Bobby. I can see how you’ve used the cut point in relation to the shoots that you have left. Particularly like the 4th image - was that the result of the work you did in the 3rd image?

 

[BobbyLane]

Thanks for the pictures Bobby. I can see how you’ve used the cut point in relation to the shoots that you have left. Particularly like the 4th image - was that the result of the work you did in the 3rd image?

That cut was made between a live branch and multiple dormant nodes on the trunk.

 

[BobbyLane]

the chop on this acer was made between a couple of shoulders and a live branch and cut very flush.

 

[AndyJ]

the chop on this acer was made between a couple of shoulders and a live branch and cut very flush.

That's going to be a really nice tree.

Is there no risk of die back when you cut it flush Bobby? I thought you had to leave a small stub behind the cut point?

 

[BobbyLane]

sure every individual tree is different. i felt that my tree could take a flush cut and just power on.
i leave small stubs when im chopping in winter and tend to cut more flush in the growth season. re maples

 

[sorce]

risk of die back when you cut it flush Bobby

I don't believe "risk" is the appropriate word, because it always will, or not, depending on the situation.

It stems from people doing an angle cut thinking a new bud will grow straight at the sharpened point they created and create your image C, almost like a cartoon would. Lol. You're at least thinking realistically, realistic is a little complicated. Especially when you're trying to predict the future.

The future of any tree, can be read in the past of another.

You see Bobby's 90 cuts? Bottom right has 2mm allowed and top has about a cm. The bud size match the "fuse". The cut is the fuse, and it's been lit, the buds must "become" before the dieback creeps down. Seems Bobby knows his fuses well.

If you keep this "fuse" idea in mind it can help. As it is operating at the very crossover of time and health, design and horticulture. It's where the fastest trees are built.

The thing about angled cuts is the buds left on that one side are rarely enough to stop the explosion. It's simply in the trees best interest to abandon them. Like a ring on your finger, without the full band, that big rock can fall off, a tree wants the full band of cambium around the trunk to hold itself up, without it, that branch will eventually break off anyway. (Smart tree theory)
They know it, so it's more of a miracle to not get dieback, than a risk to get it.

Sorce