Japanese maple pre-bonsai advice

[tmpgh]

I purchased the tree above at the local bonsai auction a few weeks ago for a very nice price. I've been studying it a bit to see where to go with it. I don't plan to work on the tree at all until next year, but it's always good to have a plan, I think.

The big problem with this tree, in my opinion, is that it splits into three big branches at the end of the trunk and also has some scars where other similar large branches have been pruned off in the past.



Any advice for how to proceed with this to the apex? The trunk is about 1.74" just above the soil and I haven't seen the roots yet. I'll worry about that next year when I repot.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[Poink88]

You'll probably be shocked but here is where I will ultimately chop this if this is mine. Not sure if you can do this in one go by spring though.

View attachment 39929

 

[tmpgh]

Why not an inch higher and use that branch on the right as the new leader?

 

[tmpgh]

Sorry, like this.

 

[tmpgh]

Holy spam... Also, why wouldn't I be able to do it all in one go? Sorry, I'm new as if the post count wasn't an indication!

I thought of taking those three branches as hard wood cuttings then chopping in spring somewhere around where we've pointed.

 

[Poink88]

Why not an inch higher and use that branch on the right as the new leader?

First, this is your tree and you can do whatever you want. Look at the trunk line...follow it from the base. See the movement to the first right branch...then up to the 2nd branch to the left. Now compare that if you continue up to the 3rd branch to the right. The movement is totally off IMHO and you will have a long taperless trunk also.

Wait for other input, they may see something else I am missing.

 

[Poink88]

Holy spam... Also, why wouldn't I be able to do it all in one go? Sorry, I'm new as if the post count wasn't an indication!

I thought of taking those three branches as hard wood cuttings then chopping in spring somewhere around where we've pointed.

You may, I am just not sure of that because I haven't worked with this variety. If it is trident, I will say you can do it. Again, better wait for other input on that. Horticulture is independent of design. And a good design may kill a tree if not executed properly.

 

[Poink88]

By the way, what is your ultimate goal for this tree? Are you happy with that trunk size? If not, you might want to hold off chopping it until you reached your goal (which could be years away). Maybe plant it in a bigger pot or even to the ground. Just another option to consider.

 

[tmpgh]

That is also an option I've considered. I thought I might put it in the ground for a few years, perhaps. I don't mind it being a small tree, however, if it is interesting. I think the way the lower trunk moves is of interest, so, undecided.

 

[Bandru87]

Nice little tree there!
I have an almost exactly same looking maple, only much smaller.
Posted about it in the "New to Bonsai" sub-forum . So i'll keep checking back to see your progress.
Sorry i cant be of any help, new to this

 

[MACH5]

That is also an option I've considered. I thought I might put it in the ground for a few years, perhaps. I don't mind it being a small tree, however, if it is interesting. I think the way the lower trunk moves is of interest, so, undecided.

I would probably opt for this option and develop it's nebari and get the trunk to thicken some more. Below is another possible way to go and if need be you could always change the planting angle slightly to add additional movement to your trunk line. I also would pick your trunk line now since if left as is the tree will swell where all three branches meet.

BTW although I am certainly no botanist, I believe that what you have is not a standard green leaf Japanese maple. Did they tell you what it is when you bought it? I have one that has exactly the same shape leaves. It is very distinctive in leaf shape and color.

 

[Martin Sweeney]

"I also would pick your trunk line now since if left as is the tree will swell where all three branches meet." - From Mach5's post

Tmpgh,

This is an excellent observation. Unfortunately, the best trunk line needs to relate well to the nebari (root base) as the root base is about the hardest thing to significantly change on a bonsai. Did you dig down to uncover it? This is always an important first step in figuring out how to proceed with an initial styling. It is, of course, best done in the spring at repotting, but depending on your location and the weather, you should be able to investigate the nebari this fall, if not now. I would here in NC without fear. Not cutting roots, or making any permanent changes to what I find, but uncovering and looking, then covering back up. If you can take a peek and then look to reduce at least one of the three trunks this year, that would be a good thing and enough for right now. I am not sure that these will root as hardwood cuttings, they seem fairly thick.

You may consider adding some further information to your profile so's folks know where you are. That helps with more specific advise useful to your reality. If your in Florida, you may not want to touch your tree's rootball at all right now, for instance.

Regards,
Martin

 

[tmpgh]

I would probably opt for this option and develop it's nebari and get the trunk to thicken some more. Below is another possible way to go and if need be you could always change the planting angle slightly to add additional movement to your trunk line. I also would pick your trunk line now since if left as is the tree will swell where all three branches meet.

BTW although I am certainly no botanist, I believe that what you have is not a standard green leaf Japanese maple. Did they tell you what it is when you bought it? I have one that has exactly the same shape leaves. It is very distinctive in leaf shape and color.


View attachment 39931

I did not get any more than "Japanese Maple" with the tree. Sorry.

Thanks for the advice. I do intend to chop below the meeting of the three branches. I have been staring at it and just don't see an attractive way forward with what is there. The decision now is about when to chop and how much.

 

[tmpgh]

"I also would pick your trunk line now since if left as is the tree will swell where all three branches meet." - From Mach5's post

Tmpgh,

This is an excellent observation. Unfortunately, the best trunk line needs to relate well to the nebari (root base) as the root base is about the hardest thing to significantly change on a bonsai. Did you dig down to uncover it? This is always an important first step in figuring out how to proceed with an initial styling. It is, of course, best done in the spring at repotting, but depending on your location and the weather, you should be able to investigate the nebari this fall, if not now. I would here in NC without fear. Not cutting roots, or making any permanent changes to what I find, but uncovering and looking, then covering back up. If you can take a peek and then look to reduce at least one of the three trunks this year, that would be a good thing and enough for right now. I am not sure that these will root as hardwood cuttings, they seem fairly thick.

You may consider adding some further information to your profile so's folks know where you are. That helps with more specific advise useful to your reality. If your in Florida, you may not want to touch your tree's rootball at all right now, for instance.

Regards,
Martin

I just updated my profile. Sorry about that. I'm in zone 6b, PA.

 

[MACH5]

"I also would pick your trunk line now since if left as is the tree will swell where all three branches meet." - From Mach5's post

Tmpgh,

This is an excellent observation. Unfortunately, the best trunk line needs to relate well to the nebari (root base) as the root base is about the hardest thing to significantly change on a bonsai. Did you dig down to uncover it? This is always an important first step in figuring out how to proceed with an initial styling. It is, of course, best done in the spring at repotting, but depending on your location and the weather, you should be able to investigate the nebari this fall, if not now. I would here in NC without fear. Not cutting roots, or making any permanent changes to what I find, but uncovering and looking, then covering back up. If you can take a peek and then look to reduce at least one of the three trunks this year, that would be a good thing and enough for right now. I am not sure that these will root as hardwood cuttings, they seem fairly thick.

You may consider adding some further information to your profile so's folks know where you are. That helps with more specific advise useful to your reality. If your in Florida, you may not want to touch your tree's rootball at all right now, for instance.

Regards,
Martin

Yes agreed! All is continent on what you find down below. Hopefully you'll have a nice set of roots to work with! If not there is always air-layering to be done

 

[tmpgh]

I just swept a bit of soil back from the base and about an inch down I found a few very thick, decent looking roots. At least three good ones of fair positioning around the trunk. It was very poorly lit in my garage as I did this so I can't say much more than that and I didn't want to dig too much. I am satisfied that when I repot in spring there will be something to work with as a base. I think I'll do a chop in that event, in spring.

Now, as for hard cuttings perhaps not taking from those branches, is it better to be sure to lose them to a chop in spring or to attempt to root them this winter? My thinking is that any chance of saving them will give me more material to learn with and develop in the future.

Is it ill-advised to just do a chop on this species? It seems that a few people recommend taking just a branch at a time. Thoughts?

Also, as per another request in this thread, does anyone have an opinion on which type of Japanese Maple this tree might be?

Thanks again

 

[Martin Sweeney]

Tmpgh,

I recommend removing the least desirable trunk of the three as soon as possible to reduce the chance of creating an unattractive swell where they all meet, unless you are planning on reducing the trunk below the site where they all meet in the spring. If you are trunk chopping below the meeting point, then leave them all to get maximum trunk thickening.

Concerning trunk chopping, late winter/early spring is the safest time to trunk chop. Late winter/early spring can be defined as the time of year when the buds start to swell but before the leaves open.

I have no idea which variety this is. I am not a Japanese Maple expert, I know the ones I have. This doesn't look like any I have. You may have to wait through Fall to see the Autumn color and Spring to see the new growth emerge before you are able to make a determination on the variety.

Finally, concerning hard wood cuttings, I have had best success taking them from the previous years growth from Japanese Maple taken in January/February. I am in a substantially milder climate than you. I will not advise you on timing or care as thinking about your winter makes me sad. However, I think you will have ample material to work with if you use what remains from your 2 remaining trunks.

Regards,
Martin

 

[tmpgh]

Thank you Martin. I do indeed plan to chop below that meeting point as I find it to be the best option. Where to chop is still in consideration. I'll research some on the cutting timing. Even if they don't take, I believe it is better to attempt it than to just throw the material in the scrap heap.

 

[Martin Sweeney]

Tmpgh,

If you are going to chop, then you may want to try airlayering all three trunks off next year and wait to chop the following spring. But, you have to decide what is most important, training what you have or using what you have as propagation stock. Doing either has consequences for the other.

Anyway, have fun with it whatever way you go forward with it.

Regards,
Martin

 

[RichKid]

Where at in Pennsylvania are you? There are huge climate differences depending on where you are. For instance I'm outside Philadelphia which gets warmer faster than say Williamsport or Erie.