Japanese Maple Shohin Creation

[Maiden69]

I was watching some channels today and came upon this one on my feed. Very interesting to see how close he cuts the new shoots on early spring. I always looked at the super miniature mame/shohin trees and while I could see they were created through a succession of chops I couldn't envision the right process. This video helped me visualize how it is done. Not sure if anyone else posted something similar... I couldn't find much.

 

[luvinthemountains]

I was watching some channels today and came upon this one on my feed. Very interesting to see how close he cuts the new shoots on early spring. I always looked at the super miniature mame/shohin trees and while I could see they were created through a succession of chops I couldn't envision the right process. This video helped me visualize how it is done. Not sure if anyone else posted something similar... I couldn't find much.

Close is right! I was confused because it seemed like he was cutting below the first node of each shoot, but then the closeup showed buds very, very close to the trunk. I imagine this is due to the variety being used having naturally tight internodes. I don't know if you could achieve these results with standard green JM.

 

[Maiden69]

Well, it is to my limited understanding that when a branch develops the first node is at the bottom of that branch, so he is essentially cutting to that first node leaving a stub for dieback. He also mentions that the first few nodes from spring are longer, which is where he makes the cut, that you can use the tighter fall nodes at the top for making cuttings. So I think he also strike the cuttings without leaves? Either way, definitely something to try for sure. There are a few dwarf green maples, which could be great for this, Brent and Bill usually have them for sale. I also plan on layering a branch from my kotohime this year, which could be a good candidate as well.

 

[Maiden69]

This video published a few days back looks like either the continuation or the beginning of the one I posted above. Here you can see him dropping the branches cut from the trees into a water of bucket. This goes against almost everything I have seen here which was to propagate from cuttings taken after post flush leaving but a few leaves. Has anyone done JM propagation with early spring cuttings before leaf break? If they are the same trees, the video says akazumi, but they look just like the JMs on the video above.

 

[Gr8tfuldad]

Her voice sound wildly familiar. She sounds very similar if not the same person that is on Bonsai Q frequently.

 

[Hack Yeah!]

@Maiden69 Kotohime actually strike cuttings easily as well, like just stick them in some dirt easy. I just potted up a few

 

[HorseloverFat]

Close is right! I was confused because it seemed like he was cutting below the first node of each shoot, but then the closeup showed buds very, very close to the trunk. I imagine this is due to the variety being used having naturally tight internodes. I don't know if you could achieve these results with standard green JM.

Those shoulder/armpit buds actually happen in some form or another on every Acer species that I have worked with, on like 1-3 year "bark" mostly. (I could be missunderstanding, but believe this is right)

If you never looked for them, you'd never think they were different, or even really "there"!

 

[coltranem]

This year I have taking hardwood cuttings with some of the long shoots on my maples. The buds are starting to pop. We'll see if the root.

 

[Shibui]

Close is right! I was confused because it seemed like he was cutting below the first node of each shoot, but then the closeup showed buds very, very close to the trunk. I imagine this is due to the variety being used having naturally tight internodes. I don't know if you could achieve these results with standard green JM.

All species have buds at the base of branches. Remember that the branch originally grew from a bud at a node. It also seems that as shoots develop the potential for new buds at the base increases. You'll frequently find that when a shoot or branch is cut back real short you get lots of new buds right round the base of that shoot.
Most Japanese maples, including standard green, that have been developed fast have branches with long internodes that are not good to develop good ramification. All, or most, of the branches are frequently removed completely and new ones developed from the buds that sprout round the base.
Even junipers have a tendency to sprout new shoots from the base of branches rather than along the branch itself - though don't try pruning to bare wood like a maple.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

I couldn't envision the right process. This video helped me visualize how it is done

Here are some pictures taken from somebody's instagram account (source is in the images). These images were not posted together as a succession by that person, but I think they clearly show the fundamental process of one of the ways that shohin maple bonsai can be created. It's a process that I particularly enjoy for shohin creation because it requires planning and confidence with a number of interesting techniques such as drastic pruning, healing wounds, and grafting.

 

[Maiden69]

Her voice sound wildly familiar. She sounds very similar if not the same person that is on Bonsai Q frequently.

Both of them were on earlier videos of BonsaiQ.

All species have buds at the base of branches. Remember that the branch originally grew from a bud at a node. It also seems that as shoots develop the potential for new buds at the base increases. You'll frequently find that when a shoot or branch is cut back real short you get lots of new buds right round the base of that shoot.
Most Japanese maples, including standard green, that have been developed fast have branches with long internodes that are not good to develop good ramification. All, or most, of the branches are frequently removed completely and new ones developed from the buds that sprout round the base.
Even junipers have a tendency to sprout new shoots from the base of branches rather than along the branch itself - though don't try pruning to bare wood like a maple.

This, I think it's the key. Prune hard on spring while developing for a few years, as the growth would be strong and coarse thickening the base rather quickly. During this time, select a shoot with a decent sized internode to be the next portion of the trunk. Then, when moving into the ramification/refinement do the last hard prune after post-flush to get a "weaker" response and shorter internodes. Sounds easy, but I know mother nature ain't going to always play with you and there are a lot more variables to take into account like watering, fertilizer, and climate.

 

[Maiden69]

Here are some pictures taken from somebody's instagram account (source is in the images). These images were not posted together as a succession by that person, but I think they clearly show the fundamental process of one of the ways that shohin maple bonsai can be created. It's a process that I particularly enjoy for shohin creation because it requires planning and confidence with a number of interesting techniques such as drastic pruning, healing wounds, and grafting.

I guess I will need to get on Instagram more often... to bad all social media URLs are blocked at work.

 

[luvinthemountains]

fundamental process of one of the ways that shohin maple bonsai can be created

The step between the first image (cuttings in colanders) and the second (huge trunks in colanders) seems like magic to me. Are they developing that much girth in containers, or is there possibly a step of ground or box growing that I am missing? I could probably answer my own question by digging back into their IG archive, but I am lazy and short on time!

 

[Maiden69]

The step between the first image (cuttings in colanders) and the second (huge trunks in colanders) seems like magic to me. Are they developing that much girth in containers, or is there possibly a step of ground or box growing that I am missing? I could probably answer my own question by digging back into their IG archive, but I am lazy and short on time!

They are all container grown, if you look at Jonas post about Kazuo Onuma garden you can see he has nothing on the "ground". I understanded the way he does the chojubai, but not the maples. After seeing the video it is clear now, because they leave akmost every shoot that comes out of the stumps to grow, they will provide all the girth to the basal flare. I think after that they move into a single trunk and do the same procedure again, but just allowing shoots to engorge that part of the trunk. The one thing is that I think this procedure will take years, maybe more than 10-15 to produce a shohin sized tree. Especially if used on dwarf or slow growing cultivars.

 

[luvinthemountains]

They are all container grown, if you look at Jonas post about Kazuo Onuma garden you can see he has nothing on the "ground". I understanded the way he does the chojubai, but not the maples. After seeing the video it is clear now, because they leave akmost every shoot that comes out of the stumps to grow, they will provide all the girth to the basal flare. I think after that they move into a single trunk and do the same procedure again, but just allowing shoots to engorge that part of the trunk. The one thing is that I think this procedure will take years, maybe more than 10-15 to produce a shohin sized tree. Especially if used on dwarf or slow growing cultivars.

Thank you for the enlightenment!

 

[Bavarian Raven]

@Maiden69 Kotohime actually strike cuttings easily as well, like just stick them in some dirt easy. I just potted up a few

View attachment 479191

Seriously. I’ve never had luck airlayering or taking cuttings of mine.

 

[R0b]

Here are some pictures taken from somebody's instagram account (source is in the images). These images were not posted together as a succession by that person, but I think they clearly show the fundamental process of one of the ways that shohin maple bonsai can be created. It's a process that I particularly enjoy for shohin creation because it requires planning and confidence with a number of interesting techniques such as drastic pruning, healing wounds, and grafting.

Shame I see this now was a trader today that had some very small tridents that were developed this way at an early stage of development. Should have taken a picture but basically it was a thumb thick stem that was cut back to a few cm, healed and some primary structure developed. It seemed very simple and obvious but I assume there is a trick liking using cuttings of the right genetic but I will experiment with the seeds I have.