Japanese Red Pine repot

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Shohin
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I have a JRP I got this summer that is in a 12"x3" plactic pot with iffy soil. It is in need of a repot and root cleaning then into a proper pot with proper soil.

Would you do this in fall or spring? From what I have read fall seems to be the best choice but I wanted to confirm with those who know. Maybe around the first of October?
 

Dav4

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I've always repotted mine in spring, just as the buds start to move. That isn't to say it can't be done in the fall but I've never done it and can't speak from experience. My preference would be to watch the watering and wait until next year.
 
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I would wait until the tree begins to come out of dormancy around late Feb or March to start a repot. Pine roots are pretty sensitive to pruning/cleaning. Unless the tree is having root rot issues, I would leave it be and let it get used to it's new surroundings and home. Also, if you're planning on overwintering it by placing it partially in the ground anyway, I would keep it in the plastic pot.

Picture would be nice too.
 
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Something to note, about that article:

In regards to late winter/early spring repotting: "The dormancy requirements have been met and the increasing air and soil temperatures insure that both top and root growth are soon to follow. At this time the roots reverse the Fall process of storing food and begin to pump food and water up to the buds and stems."

Unfortunately, as much as I love Evergreengardenworks, this statement seems to be contradictory to the Fall root pruning. I would be worried that during these final months before dormancy, when the tree is "storing food" for the spring, that it would potentially restrict the tree of gathering nutrients.

In regards to fall pruning: "As long as the daytime temperatures are above about 55F during the day the roots are in a flurry of activity. If you root prune during this period, there will be a new flush of root growth before temperatures fall into the winter range. This is especially true of mild climate areas of the West Coast and the South. This means that cut ends will heal over quickly and that new root growth will proceed until the temperatures dip."

Nashville falls in zone 7a and doesn't bare similarities to the West coast or the South. Honestly, I would want my pine to be happy and not stressed going into the winter.

Last tangent: "Growth of roots is not dependent on light, only on the supply of food and soil temperatures. Eventhough air temperatures are slipping in the fall, soil temperatures remain higher since the days are still warm and the warm earth is still radiating heat. This is especially true for plants that are in the ground, or in contact with the earth."

Again, I'm not too concerned with growing roots at this stage of the year. I'm concerned with the tree gaining as much nutrients for the winter so that it can be healthy and happy in the spring.
 

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Shohin
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Here are some pics I have as requested.
 

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Looks like a nice tree and healthy enough. I have repotted in the fall with success, although I am just getting going with Pines, so I am no expert. What if you did a gentle repot into a larger terracotta azalea pan? I like using the terracotta because I think it helps the roots breathe a bit better than plastic. I winter all my non tropicals by burying the pots in the in the ground to just below the rim and this would help keep the temperature up above freezing for quite a while, if not all winter. I also put a drainage layer in the bottom of the hole to keep the drain holes from clogging up. I use turface these days, but you could use pea gravel just as easily or anything in between.
I think the advantage of doing a light repot now and getting some decent soil in and around the roots would be that by spring assuming it is responding healthily, you could start chasing back the top growth which is getting a bit out of hand. A round of back budding this spring could set this tree on it's way. It is a bit top heavy, so make sure it is secure however you decide to go with it.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Wait until spring. I have left root-bound red pines out of the pot sitting straight on the bench for 6 months in compact soil and they actually did better. They do fine in compact soil, but if it's staying too wet, just take it out of the pot.
 
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Honestly, throw it in the ground without the pot. Do a little needle reduction to the most vigorous branches (mostly at the top) to open the tree up. Right around March, dig it up, remove some of the original soil and very little amount of the roots. Pine's hate having their roots messed with. Then go from there.
 

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Shohin
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If Dave and Brian say spring that's good enough for me. I have been doing all root work then anyway but I saw that info from Evergreen and just wanted to check.

It is healthy enough but pushed just a few weaker candles this summer. I hope it will be vigorous after the repot.

Speaking of which what are your thoughts on root work with pines? Could I remove all of the old soil and do just light root work in order to get it out of the soil it is in?
 

Nybonsai12

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Speaking of which what are your thoughts on root work with pines? Could I remove all of the old soil and do just light root work in order to get it out of the soil it is in?

If you mean bare root, I believe most sources will say it is never wise to bare root a pine and to instead change the soil in stages. I'm sure there is always an exception to this rule but I've never done it.
 
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Shohin
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I was planning on doing half and then the other, just wanted to double check with the resident experts. Thanks!
 

sdavis

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another way

I was planning on doing half and then the other, just wanted to double check with the resident experts. Thanks!

Another approach would be to carefully pull the tree out of the pot and check for new root growth. If it is present, then re-potting is probably OK.

I would caution about "up-potting" a root bound tree where you put the tree in the next size pot and surround it with porous bonsai soil. When you do that you run the risk of water not penetrating to the center of the root wad since it has an easy way to get out by passing around the root-bound wad. Instead you should consider opening at least one pie-shaped section (maybe 25%) to the center of the root wad with your root hook and then filling in with your bonsai soil. I sometimes do this on opposite sides of the tree and have good results.
 

dick benbow

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AKA Matsue is my favorite japanese pine. You rarely see them in collections and I had to really
scour many nurseries to even find anyone who carried them.

There's a beauty in the weyerhaeuser collection in federal way,washington.

I have 2 in my collection. One semi cascade, one literati....

My biggest work with them is watching fertilizer and watering as it affects the needle length.

I prefer spring time repotting, but really think the suggested pie slice shape approach with new soil has merit if you feel something can't wait till spring. I've done this sort of thing with stressed japanese black pine and it has worked nicely.

don't see that much coverage of red pines so keep us informed on it's progress. :)
 

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Shohin
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AKA Matsue is my favorite japanese pine. You rarely see them in collections and I had to really
scour many nurseries to even find anyone who carried them.

There's a beauty in the weyerhaeuser collection in federal way,washington.

I have 2 in my collection. One semi cascade, one literati....

My biggest work with them is watching fertilizer and watering as it affects the needle length.

I prefer spring time repotting, but really think the suggested pie slice shape approach with new soil has merit if you feel something can't wait till spring. I've done this sort of thing with stressed japanese black pine and it has worked nicely.

don't see that much coverage of red pines so keep us informed on it's progress. :)

I don't think it is stressed and it can certaily wait until spring. Just time for a repot. When I thought of half and half I was thinking of doing just that - right side then left side. I guess the 2 quarters way would be better. I wasn't really going to up pot it, I am looking for a round pot of the same circumference but a little bit more shallow. I am looking at Sara Rayners website. There will be updates as I will appreciate the advice of the nuts.
 
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