Japanese Weeping Willows pruning

[power270lb]

My Willows are just over 3 weeks old and have grown pretty out of control. I want more ramification and for the tree to grow out and weep so to speak. Atm it's growing up as you can see. Should I just let it go or when and where would I prune if I were to?

 

[Forsoothe!]

Things that "weep" do so because the weight of branches/twigs is heavier than it can keep upright because of their great length. You will have to wire them for a short time in bonsai scale to accomplish "weeping". The skinnier twigs that are nicely weeping will also be more subject to winter-kill. Hence, you don't see many as bonsai in spring.

 

[power270lb]

Things that "weep" do so because the weight of branches/twigs is heavier than it can keep upright because of their great length. You will have to wire them for a short time in bonsai scale to accomplish "weeping". The skinnier twigs that are nicely weeping will also be more subject to winter-kill. Hence, you don't see many as bonsai in spring.

I've read people have trouble pruning, that when they do the rest of the branch dies. Would you prune to encourage ramification? Pinch? Nigel saunders used balls of playdough as weight and it seemed to work. I could also tie it down as well so it grows it out.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I've read people have trouble pruning, that when they do the rest of the branch dies. Would you prune to encourage ramification? Pinch? Nigel saunders used balls of playdough as weight and it seemed to work. I could also tie it down as well so it grows it out.

Nigel is right. The first order of business is building an architecture that will support new growth that can grow downward with very skinny long twigs. That's the arched branch. It has to be thick enough to not winter-kill and not be too tall for your design. So, put weights on early the first year and let those branches grow long to insure thickness up to, at, and downward from, the arch peak. Let those carry over winter and in spring select where on the downward side you want to trim to a live bud to ramify each secondary branch. Naturally, it will want to grow mostly from buds at the top of the arch, so you select some to keep, like on the outboard side of the branch, and weight or lightly wire early. That will continue kinda forever, so they are very maintenance intensive trees. They will always favor upper growth over what you want, -that curtain of perfectly vertical strands. I have seen very few, but they are beautiful.

 

[power270lb]

Nigel is right. The first order of business is building an architecture that will support new growth that can grow downward with very skinny long twigs. That's the arched branch. It has to be thick enough to not winter-kill and not be too tall for your design. So, put weights on early the first year and let those branches grow long to insure thickness up to, at, and downward from, the arch peak. Let those carry over winter and in spring select where on the downward side you want to trim to a live bud to ramify each secondary branch. Naturally, it will want to grow mostly from buds at the top of the arch, so you select some to keep, like on the outboard side of the branch, and weight or lightly wire early. That will continue kinda forever, so they are very maintenance intensive trees. They will always favor upper growth over what you want, -that curtain of perfectly vertical strands. I have seen very few, but they are beautiful.

They're already close to 10 inches long (been three weeks) do I clip a few inches off each?

 

[Forsoothe!]

If this is the beginning of training then trim nothing until you get your arched architecture in place. You want enough of them to be able to have a full skirt. How many is that? Do some measuring and come up with a number.

 

[power270lb]

If this is the beginning of training then trim nothing until you get your arched architecture in place. You want enough of them to be able to have a full skirt. How many is that? Do some measuring and come up with a number.

How many do I have? 3, ordered from CZ Grain and they sent 2 additional. Since they grow so out of control when would a move to a bigger pot be ok without affecting the plant?

 

[Forsoothe!]

No, branches per plant. You need a full array of 6 or 7 branches at least for your biggest (pictured) plant as it is now, radiating out at 60° or so, with more, closer in the rear and less, spread-out in the front. They will need to be longer than the pot by several inches for you to get a proper arch before you cut them off.

 

[AJL]

What species of willow is it?
Only a few of the hundreds of willow species actually weep naturally and most will forever be producing vigorous vertical side shoots so not great for weeping bonsai
For fun you could also try suspending the pots upside down which will encourage''downwards'' growth by the process known as ‘gravitropism’

 

[Mikecheck123]

What species of willow is it?
Only a few of the hundreds of willow species actually weep naturally and most will forever be producing vigorous vertical side shoots so not great for weeping bonsai
For fun you could also try suspending the pots upside down which will encourage''downwards'' growth by the process known as ‘gravitropism’

I spent too many years figuring out that weeping is not worth it.

Broom style for the win! (see my profile pic, which is a curly willow).

 

[power270lb]

No, branches per plant. You need a full array of 6 or 7 branches at least for your biggest (pictured) plant as it is now, radiating out at 60° or so, with more, closer in the rear and less, spread-out in the front. They will need to be longer than the pot by several inches for you to get a proper arch before you cut them off.

My apologies, I forget to check here and don't get notifications. On the bigger trunk there's 6 well developed branches and they're 16" long, along with 3 at the base of the trunk that I really want to grow but they're 2" long if that. I know willows favor dominant branches and I want the trunks to grow, so how do I get the bottom branches to grow? I plan to put outside when it warms but right now I'm not sure what to do because they're growing so much they're getting very close to my grow light which is pretty powerful. The other 2 which are smaller, 1 has 5 that's 10" and a few smaller ones. The other one has only 3 well developed branches 8-10" along with 4 others 2" long.

 

[power270lb]

I spent too many years figuring out that weeping is not worth it.

Broom style for the win! (see my profile pic, which is a curly willow).

What about cascade? With closepins I think its doable but right now I just want the trunks to grow. Your leaves are so much smaller I'm wondering how I'd pull that off.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Growing bigger is the least of your problems. You are growing this indoors, I'm not sure if that is a problem or not, you need to say exactly which species this is. There are a lot of willows, the Black Willow is most common in MI, and @Leo in N E Illinois can tell us if the Weeping Willow I see is native to MI. They are all weedy and will grow from the logs of a chopped down one if you take too long to take the wood away. I've heard that you can root a cutting as big as you can stomach, so I were you, I'd look for an unguarded specimen an acquire a cutting with my bow saw. Grow it like BC in highly organic wet soil, essentially thick mud in full sun. Then I'd strive to grow your babies as small and delicate as practical. With a @Walter Pall sized tree the arches should be easier to start. See this thread. The problems with the lights & heat are one more reason to grow these as hardy, and I suspect that the growth you'd get just growing in summer and resting in winter would be as good or better than growing year around. My year around trees do not really achieve significant growth in the house or greenhouse and if I could I would not do it. The problem with that is the rest period is satisfied as least 2 months too soon and they grow in the dark and lose all their leaves, and do it again, and that's not productive either. But I digress. If you want something to fool around with in winter buy a fig.

 

[power270lb]

Growing bigger is the least of your problems. You are growing this indoors, I'm not sure if that is a problem or not, you need to say exactly which species this is. There are a lot of willows, the Black Willow is most common in MI, and @Leo in N E Illinois can tell us if the Weeping Willow I see is native to MI. They are all weedy and will grow from the logs of a chopped down one if you take too long to take the wood away. I've heard that you can root a cutting as big as you can stomach, so I were you, I'd look for an unguarded specimen an acquire a cutting with my bow saw. Grow it like BC in highly organic wet soil, essentially thick mud in full sun. Then I'd strive to grow your babies as small and delicate as practical. With a @Walter Pall sized tree the arches should be easier to start. See this thread. The problems with the lights & heat are one more reason to grow these as hardy, and I suspect that the growth you'd get just growing in summer and resting in winter would be as good or better than growing year around. My year around trees do not really achieve significant growth in the house or greenhouse and if I could I would not do it. The problem with that is the rest period is satisfied as least 2 months too soon and they grow in the dark and lose all their leaves, and do it again, and that's not productive either. But I digress. If you want something to fool around with in winter buy a fig.

Oh at the top I titled it Japanese Weeping Willows. I got these from CZ Grain exactly 4 weeks ago and they've exploded. Once it warms they'll be outside full time. I have 11 trees and they've all grown considerably in the last 12 weeks. I just started in late November and plan to have everything outside full time once the last frost is gone. But since I have to wait and the branches are so tall they're almost touching my light idk what to do. Would trimming them set them back? There's just so much I'm trying to understand. Since each has 5-6 very long branches 3-4x the size of the trunk and I want more branches with more ramification how do I achieve that?

 

[Forsoothe!]

Oh at the top I titled it Japanese Weeping Willows. I got these from CZ Grain exactly 4 weeks ago and they've exploded. Once it warms they'll be outside full time. I have 11 trees and they've all grown considerably in the last 12 weeks. I just started in late November and plan to have everything outside full time once the last frost is gone. But since I have to wait and the branches are so tall they're almost touching my light idk what to do. Would trimming them set them back? There's just so much I'm trying to understand. Since each has 5-6 very long branches 3-4x the size of the trunk and I want more branches with more ramification how do I achieve that?

Start with tip pruning the long ones and see how they respond. Seems to me that they are long enough for you to start weighing them down to form the arches. ?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I believe the weeping willow is native to Asia. It is an introduced, and somewhat invasive species in North America. It is not wildly invasive, not really considered a pest species. It is often planted at golf courses, along water ways and such. But the weeping willow and the corkscrew willow are both species imported from Asia.

 

[power270lb]

Start with tip pruning the long ones and see how they respond. Seems to me that they are long enough for you to start weighing them down to form the arches. ?

I can and watched nigel saunders put close pins on the ends of the branches and that seemed to work. Full setup

https://imgur.com/a/j9l3j6D

Here's my setup and two of the willows are under the adjustable LEDs and the larger is at a corner of my bigger grow light. Weighing them down theyll be getting in the way of my other trees but I'll experiment and see. I seriously doubt the tree will die if I trim 4 branches a few inches.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I can and watched nigel saunders put close pins on the ends of the branches and that seemed to work. Full setup

https://imgur.com/a/j9l3j6D

Here's my setup and two of the willows are under the adjustable LEDs and the larger is at a corner of my bigger grow light. Weighing them down theyll be getting in the way of my other trees but I'll experiment and see. I seriously doubt the tree will die if I trim 4 branches a few inches.

Keep an eye open on trash day for people remodeling and throwing away mirrors of any size and shape that can be used to be reflective side walls and floor of your setup. It will also build up heat so fans may become more necessary. Bouncing the light back-and-forth multiplies the effective use of the red spectrum (UV doesn't pass through glass, but does through plastic mirrors).

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Willows are quite cold hardy. Later in Spring, put them outside for the summer. Do not bring them indoors for the winter. Simply set their pots on the ground, they should be fine for the winter outdoors in NJ. Don't put them outside now, it takes a couple months for a tree to adapt to cold, but once outside for the summer, just leave them out for the autumn and winter.

I had a black willow for a few years. It survived -17 F, roughly -27 C, simply set on the ground for the winter. The weeping willow and other willows are similarly hardy. Don't baby them over the winter. You will have more trouble with trees kept too warm than trees allowed to get cold.

 

[power270lb]

I

Keep an eye open on trash day for people remodeling and throwing away mirrors of any size and shape that can be used to be reflective side walls and floor of your setup. It will also build up heat so fans may become more necessary. Bouncing the light back-and-forth multiplies the effective use of the red spectrum (UV doesn't pass through glass, but does through plastic mirrors).

I have 12+ long sheets of mylar set up like curtains on both sides. Had mylar draped over the lights but because everything is growing I took it off and set up sheets like a curtain on both sides so everything is covered now.
Mylar curtains

https://imgur.com/a/M3lSdDi