Japanese white pine experiences?

[Potawatomi13]

enjoy the fact that I don't have tons of work to do on these every time I turn around

One reason against JBP.

Strangely, my fungal problems have only been with Japanese black pine

Two reason against JBP. Surprised to get from lowly fungus

Three reason against JBP. Many great native American trees as good/better then JBP

Four reason against JBP. Many Bonsai snobs insist is best or better tree to hurry, hurry develop, no need for patience/humility,

Etcetera, etcetera

 

[jeanluc83]

I have noticed on nursery trees that if a portion of the trunk is buried it does not thicken as much as the non buried part creating inverse taper.

Would burying the graft help limit the swelling that occurs with grafts?

 

[mrcasey]

I have noticed on nursery trees that if a portion of the trunk is buried it does not thicken as much as the non buried part creating inverse taper.

I hope that isn't the case, but I can't tell yet from just 3 years in a pot.

 

[Adair M]

One reason against JBP.



Two reason against JBP. Surprised to get from lowly fungus

Three reason against JBP. Many great native American trees as good/better then JBP

Four reason against JBP. Many Bonsai snobs insist is best or better tree to hurry, hurry develop, no need for patience/humility,

Etcetera, etcetera

Needlecast fungus can be controlled by alternating copper fungicide and Daconil. And by using Cleary’s 3036.

JBP need maintenance three times a year: late winter repotting, summer decandling, and fall thinning summer candles, needle pulling and wiring.

Few American native trees can tolerate decandling as a method to shorten needles. Few American pines produce mature bark at a young age. Few American trees backbud as well as JBP. There is a reason JBP are considered to be the King of bonsai.

The best American Pine trees are collected yamadori, hundreds of years old. I don’t know of any “Great” American Pine bonsai grown from seed. Yet, JBP can grow from seed quickly and become a pleasant bonsai within 10 years. (As opposed to the Hundreds of years for yamadori.)

Pots, I have nothing against using collected material. They make great bonsai. They are not without their issues, however.

 

[petegreg]

I have noticed on nursery trees that if a portion of the trunk is buried it does not thicken as much as the non buried part creating inverse taper.

Would burying the graft help limit the swelling that occurs with grafts?

Probably yes, I have got a couple of Scots pines, collected from a gravel and yes, the buttoms of the trunks that were deeper in gravel are a little bit thinner and the bark is less developed. That's just how they grew for decades or so in nature.

 

[M. Frary]

Many great native American trees as good/better then JBP

Name one native pine better.
Ponderosa? Not.
Eastern white pine? Not.
Bristlecone pine? Not.
The only trees that come close are Scots pine. And they aren't native.
I think you're just jealous of the trees from other countries are better.
You might just be a tree racist.

 

[Hack Yeah!]

Damn JBP and their tree privilege!

 

[M. Frary]

But the native trees shape up nicely once grafted with the proper Japanese trees foliage.

 

[mrcasey]

I hate to derail this thread further but...

Frary,

This year, I started spraying fungicides on my jpb in spring. I used a rotation of copper, daconil, and mancozeb. I don't have
Cleary's. I sprayed when the buds elongated, when the needles were about an inch long, and then again in late June. If the needles started looking overrun with fungus, I pulled them, put them in the garbage, and resprayed with copper. I wore rubber gloves and dipped my hands in bleach water while I pulled needles.

Should I increase the frequency of spraying? Is not having Cleary's the missing piece of the puzzle?

 

[Potawatomi13]

Name one native pine better.
Ponderosa? Not.
Eastern white pine? Not.
Bristlecone pine? Not.
The only trees that come close are Scots pine. And they aren't native.
I think you're just jealous of the trees from other countries are better.
You might just be a tree racist.

NOTHING to be jealous of! Maybe you might take personal arrogance and argue point with Ryan Neil? Randy Knight? Walter Pall?
They see beauty you refuse to see. I also see.

 

[M. Frary]

I hate to derail this thread further but...

Frary,

This year, I started spraying fungicides on my jpb in spring. I used a rotation of copper, daconil, and mancozeb. I don't have
Cleary's. I sprayed when the buds elongated, when the needles were about an inch long, and then again in late June. If the needles started looking overrun with fungus, I pulled them, put them in the garbage, and resprayed with copper. I wore rubber gloves and dipped my hands in bleach water while I pulled needles.

Should I increase the frequency of spraying? Is not having Cleary's the missing piece of the puzzle?

I don't spray that stuff on my trees. I haven't needed it yet.

 

[M. Frary]

NOTHING to be jealous of! Maybe you might take personal arrogance and argue point with Ryan Neil? Randy Knight? Walter Pall?
They see beauty you refuse to see. I also see.

Send them over. I'll argue the point with them all day long.

 

[Nybonsai12]

NOTHING to be jealous of! Maybe you might take personal arrogance and argue point with Ryan Neil? Randy Knight? Walter Pall?
They see beauty you refuse to see. I also see.

Care to share any of your own to help make your point? oh wait......

 

[mrcasey]

I don't spray that stuff on my trees. I haven't needed it yet.

Dagnabit! I meant Adair.

 

[Adair M]

Dagnabit! I meant Adair.

Usually, JWP are not affected by fungus. JBP certainly are.

It won’t hurt JWP to spray them, too.

 

[0soyoung]

Usually, JWP are not affected by fungus. JBP certainly are.

It won’t hurt JWP to spray them, too.

You should have told that to @october!
He would make beautiful images, but they always died because of 'the fungus'.
Now he doesn't ....

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Name one native pine better.
Ponderosa? Not.
Eastern white pine? Not.
Bristlecone pine? Not.
The only trees that come close are Scots pine. And they aren't native.
I think you're just jealous of the trees from other countries are better.
You might just be a tree racist.

One problem is, not enough of the native species have been grown from seed with bonsai as the goal.

The North American species that may be as good as JBP are species like
P. rigida, and P. virginiana, both can be decandled like JBP. Both back bud on old wood, possibly better than JBP. However, both can have twisted needles, and both have bark that is less rugged than JBP. So far I think these are the two species that have higher bonsai potential. However neither one is fully winter hardy in Mike's local climate. Only P banksiana is hardy for Mike.

 

[Adair M]

One problem is, not enough of the native species have been grown from seed with bonsai as the goal.

The North American species that may be as good as JBP are species like
P. rigida, and P. virginiana, both can be decandled like JBP. Both back bud on old wood, possibly better than JBP. However, both can have twisted needles, and both have bark that is less rugged than JBP. So far I think these are the two species that have higher bonsai potential. However neither one is fully winter hardy in Mike's local climate. Only P banksiana is hardy for Mike.

Virginia Pine doesn’t produce heavy trunks very quickly. They seem to stay thin. The needles twist, too. So, when you work with them, you have to know their limitations. Moreso than with other species.

 

[Vance Wood]

Vance, how long are the needles on your JWP?

 

[Adair M]

NOTHING to be jealous of! Maybe you might take personal arrogance and argue point with Ryan Neil? Randy Knight? Walter Pall?
They see beauty you refuse to see. I also see.

Pots, Lodgepole and Shore pine make good bonsai. I happen to have two bonsai with lodgepole trunks. Yamadori trunks. But they didn’t have any low branches, so they had to be grafted.

At that point, since they needed grafts, a decision is needed: what to graft on? Lodgepole? JBP? JWP?

Universally, almost everyone agrees that JWP has the most attractive foliage. The downside is it’s very slow growing, and it takes a long time to develop mature bark. And they don’t “fatten up” quickly.

With branches, not getting fat is actually a good thing on conifers. Thin branches actually helps to make the trunk look thicker. (Deciduous are styled differently). Careful styling can hide the immature bark. So, JWP white pine won the day.

Today, 20+ years after the grafts, the trees are spectacular! Beautiful Lodgepole trunks with JWP foliage.

Many collected junipers get better foliage grafted on, as well.

The goal, Pots, is to make the best possible image using the material we have to work with.