Japanese white pine, more foliage

[Djtommy]

H all,

Here is a japanese white pine after my first styling, still rough but will do more next year.
I need a lot more foliage and hopefully some backbudding on this one.
Normaly feeding would be in early spring this the candles start growing and then again from fall.
If i continue feeding the while growing season, will there be more chance on backbudding/bigger amount of buds for next year? Or not really?
Thanx,
Tommy

 

[jk_lewis]

Very nice tree. I think I'd do it this way:

 

[Adair M]

Djtommy,

This is a very nice old JWP. To properly guide you on this, it would be helpful to have a little history on you and the tree. To wit:

When was the tree last repotted?

Have you had the tree very long?

Where, approximately, do you live?

Do you have experience with other JWP? Other bonsai? What kinds?

When you styled this tree, did you remove any foliage? Or just wire what's there? Do you have a before picture?

What side do you consider the front?

While I await your response to these questions, I'll make some general remarks:

There is a good book on pines, sold by Stone Lantern: It's the "Bonsai Today Master Series PINES". It has two main sections, one on JWP and one on JBP. I highly recommend you read the chapter within the JWP section on balancing JWP.

Take a look at your tree, and you will see relatively thicker foliage up top, and very sparce foliage down low. Your goal is to get the bottom part stronger to match the vigor of the top. Unfortunately, there is no way to selectively strengthen a single portion of a tree. You can strengthen the WHOLE tree with proper soil, water and fertilizer. You need to do this first. Your tree is weak overall. It may take a couple of years to get all parts of the tree vigorous again.

Once vigor is reestablished, then you can begin to "balance" the tree. The way this is done is by "weakening" the parts of the tree that are the strongest. We let the weak parts of the tree alone, and prune, cut back, and remove needles from the strong sections. This redirects the energy of the tree into the weak areas.

Almost all trees want to grow tall, so the top is usually the strongest area. In training bonsai, the goal is to get the tree balanced so that the bottom of the tree appears to be of the same vigor as the top.

Now, one other thing: JWP are not vigorous growers. They do not readily bud back. Once they get "leggy" it is very difficult to get them to produce foliage back closer to the trunk. So, the bonsai artist will have to resort to creative wiring to make the foliage look more dense and create pads from long gangly twigs. It appears that your tree may have been neglected at some time in it's past, and allowed to get leggy. There is no quick fix, other than grafting. And that's not quick, either.

This tree has great old, mature bark, so it is worth the effort, and time, to get it back on the right path. There is no obvious grafting scar, so it may actually be growing on it's own roots. JWP on it's own roots are rare in the US. Especially with mature bark.

Take your time, study up, and get this fellow back into top vigor before you do anything else to it. You may need to repot if it's been several years since the last potting. The best thing you could do would be to let this grow strongly for a couple years.

 

[Djtommy]

Hi Adair,

Thanx for the reply,
To answer your questions,
As to the nursery i bought it from it was repotted last year, drainage is soso though
Preferably i dont repot next year as this is also though on white pine..
I only have the tree since a couple of months actually.
As for my experience, well i have been interested in bonsai for very long time, i actually did bonsai about 20 years ago for few years but due to moving/workthings i stopped,
I used to have only deciduous but not big stuff. I actually still have one i put in the ground about 15 years ago at my parents home (Belgium), that one is started from seed and now has a trunk bigger then my forearm( horse chestnut) branches are very poor though but one day it will be nice one if i could take care of it a bit more...
Anywayz i recently(2 years ago) moved to japan around tokyo and i just had to start again since this year,
I still need to find a club but my japanese is not pefect to say the least

I have a white beech, an other white pine both about 1 year, the white pine is grafted and looks very healthy. I also have an azalea and small jbp

The one i posted has much better potential i think though.
I think the last pic would be the front, it looks soso now but with a big foliage path lower left side it would be nice i think and the nebari is best on this side too
I did not remove a lot just some with foliage far away, i want to cut of an other branch but keeping it for purpose of grafting next year. (Something i never did so probaly will look for help if i find a club)

Here is a pic from when its in the nursery
I knew when buying it would be long time before it actually looks good but i loved the trunk.
Also good price but maybe i bought a bit difficult project...
But if i can keept it healthy it will turn into nice one i hope

 

[Adair M]

Ah! You're in Japan! That explains the rough bark! Trees like yours just aren't available here in the USA. Unless you're willing to pay handsomely for it.

So the tree was repotted last year, so no need to repot anytime soon. On choosing the front: you want to have the apex coming towards you rather than moving away from you. The tree should be bowing to the observer.

I saw that the tree was fertilized with the fertilizer cakes at the nursery. Continue to go this. Buy some cakes from the nursery.

It's going to take a little time for the tree to get strong again.

This spring, when the new candles extend, on the top of the tree only, pinch the strongest candles back about halfway, making sure there will still be at least 4 or 5 bundles of new needles on the shoots. Do not pinch back the candles on the lower branches. This will begin the balancing process.

Now, about that wiring...

I saw you used aluminum. Copper is better for JWP, but aluminum will work. It looks like you wired "loose". That is, I could see lots of places where there's a gap between the wire and the branch. When wiring, the wire shouldn't be tight on the branch, but just barely touching it. Copper wire allows you to use a smaller wire and get the same or better holding power than aluminum. Note that when buying copper in Japan, they use a different gauge numbering system than we use here in the USA.

So, I would suggest you remove the wire that's on it, and rewire using copper.

Regardless of whether you rewire, you should structure the pads on the lower branches better. You should tighten up the foliage mass.

Take your hand, Palm up, and spread your fingers out wide. That's what your tree looks like now. You have little tufts of foliage at the very tip ends of your fingers.

Now, take your hand, and cup your hand like you are going to hold water. Your fingertips are close together. Your hand is more triangular rather than rounded.

Tighten up your branches so that they're not so splayed out. Try to unite the tips into "pads" of foliage. Not crowding them, give each tuft of foliage its own space. But put the next tuft of foliage next to its neighbor. With little visual space in between. I think you'll see a vast difference.

Take a look at the video series on YouTube called "the bonsai art of Japan". Bjorn shows many examples of how to wire JWP.

And since you are in Japan, go see the shows, visit all the nurseries you can! Look at all the details of the great trees and try to emulate those techniques on your own trees.

 

[Giga]

You have. A nice journey ahead of you on this one and its a nice tree, with effort and time it'll be fantastic if done right

 

[Djtommy]

Thanx,

Yeah, the wiring isnt the best.. Ill improve on that.
Its gonna take time but i still hope in 4-5 years i can see nice difference, thats why i want to make it as healthy as possible not caring about needle lenghth for few years.

Would you also put the cakes in winter? I took the old ones away 2 weeks ago as they didnt seem to do much anymore, maybe i put a few new ones now too if it helps.

There are several branches that have nonwire yet, i will wire thise as well and make sure all the needles are pointing upwards.

Not pinching the candles on lower half, i'll remember that, makes sense if youthink of it, more power there should give more buds too i assume

Its fun to work with this kind of stuff, hope i can get it healthy so i can shine in time.

Grtz,
Tommy

 

[Adair M]

No need to fertilize when the tree is dormant. But start again when in the spring. The cakes are pretty much used up when they appear to be half gone. Replace them. Start with 4, then the next week add two more, the next week add two more. Then it may be time to replace the original 4.

If your soil drainage is a bit slow, it may be because of debris left over from last year's cakes. When they break down, small particles get in the soil. So, get some replacement soil. Remove the top 3/4 inch of soil by scraping it off. Use bent-tip tweezers and scrape away from the trunk towards the edge of the pot. Replace with new soil. Do this for every tree you are not planning to repot in the spring.

Don't worry about the needle length. JWP naturally have short needles. Once you get it strong you can shorten needles.

 

[JudyB]

Nice tree, great thread. Good advice Adair!

 

[Adair M]

Tommy, PM me with your email address, and I'll send you some documents I think may help.

One of them is ONLY for Japanese BLACK pines, so don't use those techniques on your White pine. The others are about how to wire, and how to style your branches. I think they might help.

 

[Adair M]

Looking at the bark, I'd estimate this tree is about 50 years old. It takes 30 years for the bark to become rough and another decade to become flakey. There's rough bark up near the apex so it's been there a while.

It's also probably grafted onto JBP roots. Without being there to examine it closely, it's hard to tell exactly where the union is, but there is a variation in the bark character an inch or two below the jinned branch.

I couldn't help but notice that many of your wires are not properly "anchored". Always wire two branches together. There are two ends to the wire, each end should wire a branch. At least 1 1/2 turns to create a proper anchor.

I hope I'm not being overly critical. You have a fine tree, obvious enthusiasm, and so I'm trying to start you off with good information, and it's just as easy to learn proper technique as poor technique.

 

[Djtommy]

Yes, i also think its grafted on jbp roots however even looking up close its not really possible to tell, at least not for me, this is something i actually forgot to ask the nursery.
On my other wp you can see a clear difference, wp bark is still rough and not flaky and bp is very flaky. This one probably needs another 10-20 years to become similar bark.

By all means, please do critique if i do wrong, i was a bit to hasty when wiring, i think i take your advice and rewire. This is deffinatly a tree which will learn me a lot.
Actually i read many posts here and other forum and my feeling is that many people is too soft on their comments, if something isnt good just say it. People come to forum to learn and so should be told what is wrong.
Wiring pine is actually much more difficult than i thought it would be, i feel deciduous trees wire more easily for some reason.

So i appreciate your advice very much, and im sure other people can benefit from it as well.

As for the age of this one, i didnt ask this either but you are probably right, the branches are much younger which is a good thing in hope to get some backbudding, at the nursery they said its possible when furtilizing well.

Visiting nurserys/ exhibitions is very enjoyable so i always try to do when i can make a time..

Good advise on the soil too, i think my other pine has similar problem, it does look like mainly the top part is the problem so i will try this next spring

Thanx a lot
Tommy

 

[Adair M]

Email sent.

Teaching wiring in a forum is difficult.

Some tips:

Wire the anchor branch first, one and a half spirals. Then wire the other branch. Then come back and complete the wiring on the anchor branch.

Assuming you are right handed, use your left hand to hold the wire in place, use your right to spiral the wire. Your right forefinger should guide the wire onto the branch. It should be guiding the wire from about an inch off the branch. As you wire, move your left hand up the branch to firmly hold the last spiral you made.

It helps to have the branch you are wiring be pointed directly at you. Turntables are really helpful in this regard.

Take your time, and plan out your wiring. If you mess up, remove it and start over.

I'm attaching some wiring I did to the tree that's my avatar And a pic of what it looks like now. I still have some tweaking to do before the show next month. It's a JBP, but the wiring is similar.

 

[Djtommy]

Received your document, thanx again for that.
The tree is worth to put effort in it so i deffinatly redo.

Grtz and happy holidays to all!

 

[Djtommy]

One year later, i took all the wire off a few weeks ago.
These are pictures with no wire

Now new wire and again styling, below is the result.
How do you think?
First pic is the front

 

[Djtommy]

Here is a picture from the side

 

[JudyB]

Once the foliage fills in more it will be nicer. The thing I can see now, is a lot of curly q's on some of the smaller branchlets. This to me doesn't look natural and fit in with the rest of the tree. I know you are trying to compact the foliage, so there may not be a solution. Would like to see more of the base from the front when you get a chance to repot.
Also it appears that the front now, has the tree moving away from the viewer, as opposed to the other side, maybe that's just a 2d thing, but looks like the other side it moves toward.

 

[Djtommy]

Hi judy,
Thanx for your comment
Its true the foliage is a bit far away now so its difficult to bring it in closer.
This tree also had a big amount of pollen this year which made the foliage even further away..appearantly they tend to do this when they are tired.
I hope to get some backbudding but it will take a few years likely before it will fill in better. Planning to feed a lot next year.
The tree is in fact moving forward though, if you look at the last picture which shows right side you can see how it goes to the front.
Repotting will probably not be for next year, perhaps the year after.

Grtz
Tommy

 

[Adair M]

DJ, your wiring is much improved! Congratulations!

Looks like you lost that lowest spindly branch. Too bad, but it looks like you've figured out a way to overcome that.

It's a complex tree. As Judy says, you want the tree to be leaning towards the viewer, especially the apex.

And, one more thing: whichever side you choose as the front, when the base of the tree has strong movement when it comes out of the ground, the trunk of the apex should be moving the same direction. On the picture you say is the front, the trunk moves strongly to the right as it emerges from the soil. But the apex moves strongly to the left, and even appears to be moving "down". The "movement" of the apex should be to the right, in my opinion. This may be hard to do, may involve bracing the tree with rebar and guy wires, and moving it a little at a time, over several years.

To get an idea of what I'm driving at, look at the last picture you posted. Even though the lower trunk is coming directly at the viewer, it moves to the left. The apex also moves to the left in that image. And so the tree has more harmony when viewed at that angle. You wouldn't want to make that the front, but the tree looks more balanced. In my opinion.

Again, you have a nice old tree with tons of character. Take your time with it and it can become spectacular. I'm jealous! Lol!

 

[JudyB]

This tree also had a big amount of pollen this year which made the foliage even further away..appearantly they tend to do this when they are tired.

I had not heard that it has anything to do with age or health. I don't think anyone knows what causes it. I have had it on vigorous years, and on slow years. Maybe winter cold has something to do with formation.
You have such potential with this tree, would be a good puzzle to solve!