Japanese white pine, more foliage

Vance Wood

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I had not heard that it has anything to do with age or health. I don't think anyone knows what causes it. I have had it on vigorous years, and on slow years. Maybe winter cold has something to do with formation.
You have such potential with this tree, would be a good puzzle to solve!

It is possible this runs in cycles. I found out after three or four years researching and asking questions of people who are supposed to know; Pinion Pines run in five year cycles in producing bumper crops of cones. Understanding that cone production was important to the native populations a century and a half ago this kind of information becomes vital. I am suggesting that this too may be the result of a cycle. I don't know how many years but it seems that there may not be a trigger as some expect. JMHO
 

Djtommy

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DJ, your wiring is much improved! Congratulations!

Looks like you lost that lowest spindly branch. Too bad, but it looks like you've figured out a way to overcome that.

It's a complex tree. As Judy says, you want the tree to be leaning towards the viewer, especially the apex.

And, one more thing: whichever side you choose as the front, when the base of the tree has strong movement when it comes out of the ground, the trunk of the apex should be moving the same direction. On the picture you say is the front, the trunk moves strongly to the right as it emerges from the soil. But the apex moves strongly to the left, and even appears to be moving "down". The "movement" of the apex should be to the right, in my opinion. This may be hard to do, may involve bracing the tree with rebar and guy wires, and moving it a little at a time, over several years.

To get an idea of what I'm driving at, look at the last picture you posted. Even though the lower trunk is coming directly at the viewer, it moves to the left. The apex also moves to the left in that image. And so the tree has more harmony when viewed at that angle. You wouldn't want to make that the front, but the tree looks more balanced. In my opinion.

Again, you have a nice old tree with tons of character. Take your time with it and it can become spectacular. I'm jealous! Lol!
Hi Adair,
Thanx about the wiring, i also like to think i improved on that:) i think i spend about 10 hours on the wiring for this tree.
You are right about the apex
Im not happy yet with the apex as it is now, its difficult and a problem now. But im trying to build a new apex actually so the part you see going down wont be the apex in the future.
Getting the apex to the right will be difficult though as i see it, the movement of the tree is to the left so its ok for the apex also to lean towards the left. (Not 100%sure yet of this)
The plan is to get the first big bend even stronger making it more compact, this will also bright the branch on the left down more, i already did some(you can see the big guy wire) but i will bend a bit more in few months.
There is an other guy wire on the upper part bringing the top a bit more back to the middle too, that probably will also get more bending in future but i only managed a very little before the tree told me you better stop now.

So future plan is to get it more compact, and hopefully get that backbudding so i can get those branches a bit shorter.

Grtz
 

Adair M

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Repotting will probably not be for next year, perhaps the year after.

Grtz
Tommy
Then do "Soji". That's removing the top crust of old soil. It gets rid of weed seeds, old fertilizer fines, and improves drainage. Replace with fresh soil.
 

Djtommy

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so a little update,
soji as Adair suggested was done in spring, removed about a cm or more fromt the top soil and put akadama in stead. it improved drainage dramatically.
i started feeding since spring when the buds were swelling.
the needles got about twice as long as the year before. they are too long now to look good but as the styling also doesnt look good yet it doesnt matter.
branches thickened and wiremarks were visible already by end of summer on several branches.
wire was all removed about 2 months back.
here is a picture from summer, pretty much a green ball without much shape.
mini-CIMG1482.JPG

overall height got quite a bit smaller since the start by bending the trunk.
a bend in the upper part resulted in a death branch just above the bend.
mini-CIMG1648.JPG
its looks quite strong and has backbuds now, though not every branch.
mini-CIMG1646.JPG mini-CIMG1644.JPG

as its now, the tree doesnt look too good shapewise. im planning to do a major restyle which includes a angle change of about 90 degree.
not sure if it will be possible in one go. im on the look for and half egg shaped stone to get some easier repotting.
also not sure if i should do the repot first and style next year or both will be fine.
though if i style it now and put at the angle i want to make it i can not water it anymore..
still some time left before spring starts so.. though im eager to wire it again..
 

Potawatomi13

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Good tree and looks more like Yamadori than nursery tree. Cannot either see sign of having been a graft;).
 

Djtommy

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Wired this tree again and made some changes in the design and direction for it.
I finally feel like it’s going somewhere design wise.
Needles are annoyingly long. Like 5,6cm. I hope I can get them shorter again like at least by half.
8E8C9081-8EA7-4C16-B6AC-5F04569F2775.jpeg 6CBADA06-40EC-48C3-AAF3-6554C4020AB9.jpeg 9BAEA170-6883-4934-9BEA-AF0090D02C6B.jpeg F5C599A5-CB67-41BD-88C6-90DB050F68CF.jpeg 70DE72AD-AE17-4CE3-AC1B-4401B5FB7C62.jpeg A321F73E-9A90-45F0-BA06-90076CBCE37E.jpeg
 
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Long needles help with photosynthesis and development. Short needles will come with ramifications.
 

Potawatomi13

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Most every view that exposes trunk best shows base/root interface looks bad:confused:. Suggestion to change planting angle to hide roots/interface about or little more angle from where you show in last pics. Needle length managed with fertilizer, H2O during growth, not too hard to do;).
 
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discusmike

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It looks healthy and that is the most important aspect of this hobby
 

Djtommy

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Most every view that exposes trunk best shows base/root interface looks bad:confused:. Suggestion to change planting angle to hide roots/interface about or little more angle from where you show in last pics. Needle length managed with fertilizer, H2O during growth, not too hard to do;).

The last picture is the current front. Trunk is less visible now but in 3D it’s ok I think. When needles get shorter it should look better.
The angle change is something I’m not sure about yet and increasing the angle is definitely a possibility

Grtz
 

Wilson

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This is a dream tree for me. I am glad to see you have it growing well. I really enjoy the sinuous trunk, it gives it a wild look. I honestly enjoy the angle of the very first photo. I look forward to seeing you develop it further. Thanks for updating!
 

0soyoung

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The last picture is the current front. Trunk is less visible now but in 3D it’s ok I think. When needles get shorter it should look better.
The angle change is something I’m not sure about yet and increasing the angle is definitely a possibility
I like this front WITH the angle change; compact the canopy to the right, leaving the meandering trunk completely exposed. It is a very nice 'problem' :D
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Nice material. The needle shape and texture is characteristic of a JWP grown on its own roots. It may be a result of too much water. The soil looks pretty broken down, and when you repot it next, use more river sand and less akadama. I remember Peter Warren telling me to water my JWP by spraying the ground around it and moving on to the next tree!
 

Djtommy

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For the record,
Not there yet but slowly changing and slowly getting better(I hope), still trying a bend in the canopy to show some sharp curves there, not there yet, perhaps by the end of this year it can be. Foliage is smaller this year.
B7E173B5-128C-43AD-8797-98E409650CAE.jpeg

858C4977-BEAE-41B7-90DF-63D8C3883012.jpeg
 

Vance Wood

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It looks healthy and that is the most important aspect of this hobby
That's only half of the hobby. The most important part, if you are honest, is the artistic design goals and how to get there while still having a healthy tree. If you cannot tie the two together you will continually be disappointed, frustrated and delayed.
 

Djtommy

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That's only half of the hobby. The most important part, if you are honest, is the artistic design goals and how to get there while still having a healthy tree. If you cannot tie the two together you will continually be disappointed, frustrated and delayed.
That is very much true, this tree actually frustrated me a lot already. health is necessary but not the goal , the goals is something aesthetically pleasing,
 
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Djtommy

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Looking at the first picture on this thread, wow, what a transformation!
Not there yet though, but it’s getting there, needs a few more years it think.
I made some serious bends in this tree already, I broke some branches on the way too, too often it was unintentional... last time was today...
 
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