Japanese White Pine....non-graft?

[cmeg1]

Ok,so have some seed.If I remember correctly these were all the rave back in the day.Slender non-grafted JWP.Now seems everyone is on the boat that they are weak and problematic on there own roots.
Any talks about these from seed?
I want to supercharge these from seed.....seedling cuttings and all in my hydro settup with co2(50% more photosynthesis) and all the other true genetic potential bell and whistle techniques I have learned this past year
Ok! Finally found a picture on internet.....where did they all go??
Of course stone lantern had a picture.....maybe I have not had a bonsai publication in a while....This is no graft,right?
Remeber all the single trunk slender ones ? Bonsai Today days.....
Any input greatly appreciated.
Curtis

 

[Dav4]

I've had this one, a seedling grown JWP, for about 15 months. Apparently, I live at the southernmost range/warmest climate for the species, and my backyard doesn't get more then 6 hours of full sun... despite all that, it's grown strongly for me and is back budding very well.

 

[cmeg1]

I just would like to experiment.....I show this all the time,but the JBP seedling cutting below is like 4.5 fkn’ months old with 17 leaders and never pruned!!!
This blows my mind....want to see a JWP excellurated like this✌

 

[leatherback]

So.. what are you waiting for? Wasting time here. You could have been an hour in. That is seedling-cutting stage, the speed you are growing at!

 

[cmeg1]

An old bci species guide ha ha

Pinus parviflora - Bonsai BCI

www.bonsai-bci.com

@leatherback
These seedling cuttings can be done loam too
You can also bake yard clay and mix with quality rough peat and get good biome effect.Use organics though.

I have a tent just for this

 

[cmeg1]

I've had this one, a seedling grown JWP, for about 15 months. Apparently, I live at the southernmost range/warmest climate for the species, and my backyard doesn't get more then 6 hours of full sun... despite all that, it's grown strongly for me and is back budding very well.
View attachment 332489

View attachment 332490

Cool thanks,Dave.

 

[Shibui]

JWP will grow OK without grafting. I even have some here where it is so much warmer than they should grow.
Some of the misinformation is caused when someone influential wants to make a name or a profit. If they are convincing or talk enough the idea gains credence and becomes fact. I see many cases of this.
Shape and style of trees is subject to fads and fashions and changes over time. The style of trees you saw 30 years ago is out and new, 'sumo' and 'helmet' style is now considered best so growers try to follow and these ideas are perpetuated.

Look forward to hearing how your trials go.

 

[Colorado]

Yes! I’d love to see you explore with some native pines as well, Ponderosa and Limber in particular, with those super-charged techniques!

I would definitely buy some White pine seedlings from ya.

 

[cmeg1]

JWP will grow OK without grafting. I even have some here where it is so much warmer than they should grow.
Some of the misinformation is caused when someone influential wants to make a name or a profit. If they are convincing or talk enough the idea gains credence and becomes fact. I see many cases of this.
Shape and style of trees is subject to fads and fashions and changes over time. The style of trees you saw 30 years ago is out and new, 'sumo' and 'helmet' style is now considered best so growers try to follow and these ideas are perpetuated.

Look forward to hearing how your trials go.

Thanks for this observation.Nice to bring enthusiasm into my endeavor.

 

[cmeg1]

Yes! I’d love to see you explore with some native pines as well, Ponderosa and Limber in particular, with those super-charged techniques!

I would definitely buy some White pine seedlings from ya.

Have to admit,you have me looking through internet pictures of both the native sugggestions.I just could not get a grip on size I could grow starters at.Is there market for growing natives out from seed like we do the JBP?
Any pics or more suggestions be awesome.

I am so used to seeing collected specimins of the natives.....
Hopefully some JWP!!!
Fun

 

[cmeg1]

Into the 1or 2 day soak

Probably 1 day.I use fulvic/kelp to soak the seeds in.Understand its good for dry seed.
I imagine they alll sink overnight.Right away 60% did sink.
These seed can store 10 years..!!! Wow
Also found a JWP that I remember seeing from Bonsai today DAYS
I always did enjoy this simple design and look.Relatively young trees too.
Literally cannot find photos like these anymore without really digging!! What the? Only 15 years ago
Only

 

[cmeg1]

Ok I’m officially excited for this....

 

[vp999]

I've had this one, a seedling grown JWP, for about 15 months. Apparently, I live at the southernmost range/warmest climate for the species, and my backyard doesn't get more then 6 hours of full sun... despite all that, it's grown strongly for me and is back budding very well.
View attachment 332489

View attachment 332490

Wait..That tree is 15 month old from seed ?

 

[Dav4]

Wait..That tree is 15 month old from seed ?

More like 70-80 years old from seed... it's been in my backyard for 15 months...

 

[vp999]

More like 70-80 years old from seed... it's been in my backyard for 15 months...

Thats what I thought too, nice pine!

 

[leatherback]

Oh, was it a serious question whether or not they grow on their own roots?

Yes they do
yes they are weaker (As shown by the foliage being a little yellowish under conditions here)
Yes they live to old age (But here in my whereabouts many are struggling with the hot dry summers)

 

[Mapleminx]

Ok I’m officially excited for this....

So am I! I can wait to see your supercharged JWP, maybe some JRP next ?

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

JWP are quite common on their own roots here in Japan.

I own two personally, and have seen many others. Not to say there are a lot that are grafted on JBP (there are), but there are plenty on their own roots as well.

Only available in Japanese and quite difficult to find (took me 6 months to track down a copy) but this book has some excellent info/photos of developing JWP at most stages. Covers cuttings/grafting in detail too.

I actually want to try some from seed myself. See if they are much different from these mugos I'm playing with.

Good luck, I'll be following along.

 

[JeffS73]

Good luck to you seed growers. My research led me to believe JWP seed need to be super fresh, and when I tried to germinate, I got 3/200 or so. That was with 12 weeks cold stratification. My seed supplier might not have been the best.

For reference, here is an average JBP from this year, photos taken today:


And my best JWP from this year:


Both hydro, under lights, no CO2. Roots cut on JBP, not cut on JWP. I know MC has successfully root cut JWP but I only got 3 so I played it safe!

Best of luck, loving your experiments & shared knowledge Curtis

 

[Shibui]

I had fresh seed - collected right from a tree as the cones opened. The only ones that germinated were the seeds where I cracked the hard outer coat. None of the seeds that were sown as they came from the cones germinated. Neither batch was stratified but they did get some (just) below freezing nights in the seed trays outside through winter.