Japanese White Pine Seed Germination Technique

junmilo

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Hi All,

I have been reading a lot on the best way to germinate Pine Seeds, specifically Japanese white pine seeds. A lot of these reading materials and online forums talk about seed soaking, seed scarification, and seed stratification.

I purchased some white pine seeds in 2013 and tried to follow the rules in the book, no germination.
I purchased some white pine seeds again in 2014 from a different vendor, didn't work..no germination.
I didn't bother buying in 2015 and I'm itchy on purchasing some in Feb.2017 and trying again.

In 2015 and 2016, I have been testing a method on germinating (Citrus and Prunus Seeds) that I saw on a youtube video where they:
1. Soak seeds in luke warm water for 4-24 hours
2. remove the hard shell of the seed
3. place the naked seed embryo on a wet paper towel and leave it in a ziplock bag at room temperature.
4. wait 5-10 days and roots will start to develop.

So I tried the above on the Citrus (lemon, tangerine, lime, orange) and Prunus (Peach, Apricot, Plum) All Sprouted Roots!!!

I am trying this now with Winter Sweet (Japanese Allspice) seeds and so far 50% are pushing out roots in the paper towels. I want to test Oak Tree Seeds Next, but my question is has anyone tried this method on Japanese White Pine seeds? or any pine seeds?

Thank you

Jun
 

ysrgrathe

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What technique did you try with pines in the past? I've always seen cold stratification recommended.

I think trying to compare techniques across genera is probably not that useful. I try to find an ag paper on the genus rather than trust anecdotal stories.
 

leatherback

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I have sown white pine seeds in early winter, outside. Germinated fine in spring.
I am not a big fan of all the artificial methods. Nature knows, is what I always think. (We'll know in spring. Am germinating 4 types of maple, Ginkgo, Pine, Zelkova, Chinese elm)
 

GGB

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I artificially stratified my jwp seeds and ... they never sprouted. The seeds weren't cheap, double digits I think, so I kept a few of them (3 I think) and planted them in my garden in early spring, just in case. In late summer all 3 seeds sprouted (or poked through the soil) on the exact same day. Kind of amazing. If I were to try again one day I would sow the seeds directly into the soil in October.
 

GGB

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My seedlings are now 2 years old and 3" tall. Either this is the slowest growing tree I've ever sown or I'm taking care of these guys all wrong
 

0soyoung

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So we (I am part of this group) know that temperate trees like acer palmatum have a chilling requirement somewhere around 1,000 hours (6 weeks). For Douglas fir it is at least 1700 hours. Douglas fir are indigenous to where I am living and p. parviflora do well here. IOW, 2000 hours (about 3 months) should satisfy their chilling requirement.

So, fold a piece of paper towel down to the size that will fit into a sandwich bag and apply a few drops (up to one dozen) of tap water so that it becomes damp. Cut a piece of plastic (say 1"x 2" or 2" x 4") fold it in half and crease the fold. Open a fold of the dampened paper towel and lay this piece of plastic on it, aligning the folds. Lay your seeds on the plastic to one side of crease. Fold the plastic and dampened towel over the seeds. Place this packet in the sandwich bag and put it in your refrigerator. Make a note somewhere of the date you did this and add 3 months/13 weeks - on that date take the package out of your refrigerator - seeds should sprout within one or two weeks.
 

Saizan

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I tried 2 times to germinate JWP without success too. I made artificial stratification in the fridge, usually with medium - high germination rate (different species of maples, Prunus, Ginkgo, Juniperus, Taxodium). But never get one germination of Pinus parviflora.

In my case natural stratification is not an option, since we have short and warm winters.
 

jeanluc83

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There was JWP near where I live that I collected seeds from two years ago. I collected about 60-70 seeds. Of those about 10 sank after soaking for 48 hours. These were wrapped in a slightly damp paper towel put in a bag then into the fridge for about 3 months. In the spring they were planted. A couple of weeks later 4 sprouted. My germination rate was not the best but I was just kind of winging it along the way.

The seeds were collected from a landscape tree with no other JWP around. The germination rate may have been better if there had been cross pollination between trees. I don't know that for sure though. Unfortunately the tree was cut down at the end of the summer or I would have done another batch this coming spring.
 

junmilo

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What technique did you try with pines in the past? I've always seen cold stratification recommended.

I think trying to compare techniques across genera is probably not that useful. I try to find an ag paper on the genus rather than trust anecdotal stories.

I have tried:
1. Cold Method from Late Fall to Early Spring
2. Cold and Warm
3. Warm Water soaking, Cold and Warm.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Key with pines from seed is freshness. JWP seeds loose viability rapidly. Even stored properly, cool & dry as in the refrigerator, by 18 months JWP will be less than 50% viable. Most white pine species have a similar short shelf life. Stored at room temperature, shelf life is considerably shorter.

JBP, JRP, sylvestris, rigida, banksiana and many of the two needle pines have a 10 year self life in same conditions.

When buying JWP, it is critical to get fresh seed that has been stored properly. I used Sheffield's with good results. Internet and eBay resellers often purchase out of date seed from wholesalers. It is rare that an eBay seller will have fresh seed. So buyer beware.
 

MichaelS

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="junmilo, post: 411155, member: 12006"]


2. remove the hard shell of the seed
3. place the naked seed embryo on a wet paper towel and leave it in a ziplock bag at room temperature.
4. wait 5-10 days and roots will start to develop.

WHAT??? NO!!!
After stratification, sow the seeds (without removing any seed coat. White pine does not have an impermeable seed coat.) in a well drained mix which has been inoculated with mycorrhizae. Water once then not again until the top half inch is dry. Using a ''sterile mix'' and watering in with vermicompost tea mixed with seaweed extract is a good insurance against pythium etc. Using strong fungicide against damping off is often less reliable as it can harm mycos and leave seedlings susceptible later on.
I have sown many hundreds of pine including white this way with success.
 

jeanluc83

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Have you tried collecting your own seeds. JWP are planted fairly frequently as landscape trees. You might be lucky and find one growing in your area. It is far too late this year but keep your eyes out next year.
 

mwar15

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I have germinated JWP seeds twice. My first method was soak in water for 24hrs, ziplock with moist peatmoss for a month in the fridge. Then take and set on top of a water heater. The heat from the water heater sprouted the seeds within a couple weeks.
My recent JWP this year I just soaked for 24hrs then straight into a ziplock with moist peatmoss on top of the water heater. They sprouted within a week. It depends on the seeds and where you get them and freshness. I have used the paper towel method instead of peatmoss too. I don't ever clip pine seeds.
 

Nybonsai12

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I tried JWP a year or two ago. Fridge stratification. None sprouted. Can't recall where i got them. Certainly not the easiest species to try from seed. And even if germinated, a long haul ahead before you get something useful. But I recall Owen reich saying in another thread, that everyone should try to get white pines on their own roots. I know I would like one! Maybe i'll try again.

The fridge has been hit and miss for me with stratification. I've tried tridents, J. Maple, Blue spruce, White pine, red pine, black pine. I've had seeds rot from staying too damp. I've had some not rot but never sprout after planting out. I've had some start sprouting in the fridge on me as well.

best result was buying fresh JBP seed and not even doing the cold stratification, guess those were good seeds.

For fun i started cold stratifying approx 50 J. Maple, 2 different varieties, just about 120 days ago. I planted out 10 days ago inside on my heat mat. No sprouts yet and I have a feeling none will, but they aren't rotten. I'll continue to wait but I gotta figure if nothing happens within 30 days, it's a no go. Just an excuse to buy more seeds of something else to try.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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JWP - if seed is fresh, and has not been allowed to dry out, a fair percentage will sprout immediately. If moisture content of the seed drops below a certain amount, the seed will go dormant and need stratification to sprout.
 

GGB

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I have never come across a JWP landscape tree in my town or around it. If I ever do, it's game on
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Bonsai from seed. There's a lot of ways the project can fail.

Getting fresh viable seed is first step.

Meeting stratification requirements. Each species has its unique needs.

Damping off, and other fungal and bacterial diseases plague newly sprouted seedlings. Prevention is best, full sun and good air movement help prevent these diseases. I always try to time stratification so that seedlings go straight to the outdoors growing bench, as the UV in natural sunlight helps keep fungal & bacterial issues to a minimum.

Then there is the years of growing ahead. Again each species has its quirks, and what you do to get the seedling ready to become bonsai, like early root pruning, or forcing low branches, or wire to creat movement. Left alone too long and your seedlings will be no better than landscape nursery stock.

So while any one step of raising bonsai from seed is not difficult, there are enough things that go wrong, that it is truly an accomplishment to go from seed to pre-bonsai to bonsai to exhibition quality bonsai tree.
 
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="junmilo, post: 411155, member: 12006"]




WHAT??? NO!!!
After stratification, sow the seeds (without removing any seed coat. White pine does not have an impermeable seed coat.) in a well drained mix which has been inoculated with mycorrhizae. Water once then not again until the top half inch is dry. Using a ''sterile mix'' and watering in with vermicompost tea mixed with seaweed extract is a good insurance against pythium etc. Using strong fungicide against damping off is often less reliable as it can harm mycos and leave seedlings susceptible later on.
I have sown many hundreds of pine including white this way with success.

What is a sterile mix?
 

MichaelS

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What is a sterile mix?

Wrong word, Better a ''pasteurized'' mix where pathogens are killed with 30 minutes of steam at 60C. But even this is not necessary if you have a well matured mix with a high population of beneficial microbes. They tend to keep pathogens to very low numbers. I never heat treat my seedling mixes anymore and don't often have the need for fungicides either.
 

win320

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JWP (Japanese White Pine)

8-Nov-2020: Soaked in warm water for 24 hours
9-Nov-2020: put moist milled sphagnum moss in a zip bag for a cold stratification inside lower shelf of fridge and then somebody corrected me to do warm stratification.
12-Nov-2020: took out from fridge in 3 days for warm stratification (on the top of the fridge - Not inside ) to get warm air
4-Jan-2021: 1 seed popped out in the zip bag ;) NOW COMPLETELY CONFUSED. other seeds are still in warm stratification.

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