JBP advice needed

Messages
618
Likes
580
Location
Louisiana
USDA Zone
9A
#1
I picked up this nursery JBP (Monina cultivar) for practice. It's a grafted one around 1" at the base. The graft is low and decently formed.
It also has some fairly low branches. What's next?
20190122_062756.jpg
 
Last edited:
Messages
618
Likes
580
Location
Louisiana
USDA Zone
9A
#3
Monica is the cultivar. It is also known as majestic beauty. Monrovia claims that it is excellent for bonsai.
 

Dav4

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,576
Likes
15,143
Location
North Georgia/lived in MA until 2009
USDA Zone
7b
#4
I picked up this nursery JBP (Monina cultivar) for practice. It's a grafted one around 1" at the base. The graft is low and decently formed.
It also has some fairly low branches. What's next?
View attachment 224235
So, what were your thoughts when you picked this tree up? Are you wanting a bigger tree or a smaller tree? What does the root base look like? My inclination would be to consider everything above that first node as sacrificial. I'd also want this one in better soil. If this were my tree, my plans for this year would be reducing the sacrificial branch to one leader now, and wire some shape into the 3 branches at that first node. I'd perform a half bare root re-pot this spring. Next year, if those 3 branches grew well, you could chop away the large sacrificial branch and start developing the next trunk section. Good luck/have fun!
 
Messages
618
Likes
580
Location
Louisiana
USDA Zone
9A
#5
So, what were your thoughts when you picked this tree up? Are you wanting a bigger tree or a smaller tree? What does the root base look like? My inclination would be to consider everything above that first node as sacrificial. I'd also want this one in better soil. If this were my tree, my plans for this year would be reducing the sacrificial branch to one leader now, and wire some shape into the 3 branches at that first node. I'd perform a half bare root re-pot this spring. Next year, if those 3 branches grew well, you could chop away the large sacrificial branch and start developing the next trunk section. Good luck/have fun!
I was thinking very much along the same line. I was thinking about slip potting it into a larger colander. Then I would attempt a George Muranaka method air layer on the leader, in doing so I will reduce the sacrificial branch to one leader. When I collect that air layer I will chop away the sacrificial branch and start development. For $30 the tree gives me a chance to do a few things I haven't done on a JBP. Next year when I buy a prebonsai JBP, I will have some experience on how to work with them.
 

0soyoung

Masterpiece
Messages
4,806
Likes
7,024
Location
Anacortes, WA
USDA Zone
8b
#6
From the Missouri Botanical Garden:
‘Monina', commonly sold under the trade name of MAJESTIC BEAUTY, is similar in form to the species, but slightly more compact. It is distinguished from species' trees by having (1) more uniform rich green needle color with an absence of chlorotic (yellow) needles due to its absorption of greater amounts of iron from the soil, and (2) absence of needle tip burn (necrosis) associated with smog. It was selected from a bed of seedlings of Pinus thunbergii at Monrovia Nursery, Azusa, California on May 1, 1976. U. S. Plant Patent PP05,078 was issued on August 2, 1983.
I might try to layer it in that long internode above the first whorl. Then you might also have one on its own roots. I did this successfully with a thunderhead (though it took 3 years in my cool climate). Then do as one does to grow pines.
The root stock is likely a regular JBP, so HBR when you get around to it.
 
Messages
618
Likes
580
Location
Louisiana
USDA Zone
9A
#7
I put it into a 12" colander last night. The whole gallon container was a solid compacted root ball. I teased the roots out as best I could and set it in the colander. When the weather warms up and the temperature is high enough for root growth I will air layer the top out.
 
Messages
495
Likes
246
Location
Upstate SC
USDA Zone
7
#8
You're weeks (at most) from the proper time to repot this tree. It would've been better served with that treatment.
 
Messages
618
Likes
580
Location
Louisiana
USDA Zone
9A
#9
You're weeks (at most) from the proper time to repot this tree. It would've been better served with that treatment.
I simply got tired of having it blown down by the wind in the itty bitty nursery pot. I barely disturbed the outside of the roots to stop it from circling. Other than that it is almost like slip potting it into a larger container. I'm not too concerned about disturbing the root much. I think it will be alright. I'll wait until later to do other things.
 
Messages
618
Likes
580
Location
Louisiana
USDA Zone
9A
#10
I did a double stack air layer like I saw in George Muranaka blog. It responded by popping so many buds after the top was cut. Now come the long 6 month wait. :)
20190125_120703.jpg
 

Adair M

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,893
Likes
19,230
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
#11
I hope it does well for you.

Just so you know:

“Slip potting” is one of the poorest practices people attempt to do with bonsai. For some reason they think it’s a good thing not to disturb the mat of roots that accumulate around the interior of the old pot.

Then they put it into a colander, filled with fast draining inorganic bonsai soil.

A year later, they whine and complain that the “Boon Mix” doesn’t work!

You have done pretty much everything wrong you could have possibly done!

I know, you’re insulted, think I’m a pompous bastard, but if you’ll pull on your big boy pants, I think you’ll learn something...

So, let’s take the opportunity here to remind everyone that bonsai is a marathon, not a sprint, and trees have ADHD, they get overwhelmed trying to multi-task, which is why we say “one insult at a time! Either try the airlayer OR repot. NOT both.

Slip potting is changing one identical sized and shape pot for another. You add new soil, it’s not a slip pot.

Why “slip potting” into bonsai soil doesn’t work:

The tree doesn’t know it’s in a pot. When the roots hit the wall off the pot, it’s been genetically programmed to try to go around the “rock”. Of course, in the pot, this builds a circumference of roots. Which can get a little woody. All the feeder tips are in the interior.

When you stick the pot bound root ball into bonsai mix, the growing feeder tips aren’t in contact with the new soil, they’re inside the wall of woody circling roots. They can’t get to the new soil.

Sure, there’s bound to be SOME tips on the outer surface, right? The new bonsai soil is open, lots of air. The roots don’t want to grow into the air! Plus the new soil drains quickly. The old soil is nice a wet. No need to try to grow into air when the old soil is damp.

But what happens over time is when the new pit is watered, the water finds the quickest way down. Which is NOT thru the old soil. The quickest way is to flow around the old soil and down thru the new open bonsai mix. And out the bottom. You water, see water coming out the bottom and think it’s all getting wet. No! The center of the old rootball never gets wet. It all goes around.

Meanwhile, the tree is sucking water from the old rootball. The old rootball slowly gets dryer and dryer. Even though it might get watered, the core gets dryer.

And the tree can die of thirst!

What’s the solution?
Don’t slip pot! Remove that outer skin of circling, woody roots. Tease out about 1/2 to 3/4 inches of tiny feeder roots to stick out (fuzzy wuzzy) from the sides of the rootball. Cut the rootball flat on the bottom. No fuzzy wuzzy there. We don’t want roots growing down. Only out to the sides.

Now, when you repot into the open, inorganic bonsai mix, the little feeder roots will already be IN the new mix. They don’t have to grow into it, they’re already there! A little light chopsticking to make sure you get the soil down around the little roots. Back full with soil. Tap the pot with the meat of your fist to help settle the soil. Be sure to tie it in TIGHT so that it doesn’t move AT ALL. Water until the water runs out clean. Set the tree out in the sun. NOT in the shade. The sun will warm the pot which will encourage the roots to grow. Each time you water, water throughly so that the old rootball is saturated while you wait for the little roots in the open bonsai mix to start growing, and they will!

The next time you repot, you should see tons of fibrous roots and lots of mychorazzae. Much likes oxygen, and the open mix encourages it.

There. I just gave you a $1000 lesson on how to properly repot bonsai.
 
Messages
618
Likes
580
Location
Louisiana
USDA Zone
9A
#12
Thanks
I hope it does well for you.

Just so you know:

“Slip potting” is one of the poorest practices people attempt to do with bonsai. For some reason they think it’s a good thing not to disturb the mat of roots that accumulate around the interior of the old pot.

Then they put it into a colander, filled with fast draining inorganic bonsai soil.

A year later, they whine and complain that the “Boon Mix” doesn’t work!

You have done pretty much everything wrong you could have possibly done!

I know, you’re insulted, think I’m a pompous bastard, but if you’ll pull on your big boy pants, I think you’ll learn something...

So, let’s take the opportunity here to remind everyone that bonsai is a marathon, not a sprint, and trees have ADHD, they get overwhelmed trying to multi-task, which is why we say “one insult at a time! Either try the airlayer OR repot. NOT both.

Slip potting is changing one identical sized and shape pot for another. You add new soil, it’s not a slip pot.

Why “slip potting” into bonsai soil doesn’t work:

The tree doesn’t know it’s in a pot. When the roots hit the wall off the pot, it’s been genetically programmed to try to go around the “rock”. Of course, in the pot, this builds a circumference of roots. Which can get a little woody. All the feeder tips are in the interior.

When you stick the pot bound root ball into bonsai mix, the growing feeder tips aren’t in contact with the new soil, they’re inside the wall of woody circling roots. They can’t get to the new soil.

Sure, there’s bound to be SOME tips on the outer surface, right? The new bonsai soil is open, lots of air. The roots don’t want to grow into the air! Plus the new soil drains quickly. The old soil is nice a wet. No need to try to grow into air when the old soil is damp.

But what happens over time is when the new pit is watered, the water finds the quickest way down. Which is NOT thru the old soil. The quickest way is to flow around the old soil and down thru the new open bonsai mix. And out the bottom. You water, see water coming out the bottom and think it’s all getting wet. No! The center of the old rootball never gets wet. It all goes around.

Meanwhile, the tree is sucking water from the old rootball. The old rootball slowly gets dryer and dryer. Even though it might get watered, the core gets dryer.

And the tree can die of thirst!

What’s the solution?
Don’t slip pot! Remove that outer skin of circling, woody roots. Tease out about 1/2 to 3/4 inches of tiny feeder roots to stick out (fuzzy wuzzy) from the sides of the rootball. Cut the rootball flat on the bottom. No fuzzy wuzzy there. We don’t want roots growing down. Only out to the sides.

Now, when you repot into the open, inorganic bonsai mix, the little feeder roots will already be IN the new mix. They don’t have to grow into it, they’re already there! A little light chopsticking to make sure you get the soil down around the little roots. Back full with soil. Tap the pot with the meat of your fist to help settle the soil. Be sure to tie it in TIGHT so that it doesn’t move AT ALL. Water until the water runs out clean. Set the tree out in the sun. NOT in the shade. The sun will warm the pot which will encourage the roots to grow. Each time you water, water throughly so that the old rootball is saturated while you wait for the little roots in the open bonsai mix to start growing, and they will!

The next time you repot, you should see tons of fibrous roots and lots of mychorazzae. Much likes oxygen, and the open mix encourages it.

There. I just gave you a $1000 lesson on how to properly repot bonsai.
Thanks Adair. I'm not insulted in the least. Your comment was expected and very much appreciated. I did undo all circling roots and teased out 3/4" but left the interior roots alone. I didn't cut the bottom but sat it right to the bottom of the new so it could not grow any deeper. I did work the soil in with chop sticks. I was curious and removed a little bit of the new soil to peel and I saw new roots into the new soil so I got lucky. :)

Hopefully next year when I get my prebonsai tree I won't repeat these mistakes. Knowing myself I'm sure I'll make new ones :)
 

Adair M

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,893
Likes
19,230
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
#13
Thanks
Thanks Adair. I'm not insulted in the least. Your comment was expected and very much appreciated. I did undo all circling roots and teased out 3/4" but left the interior roots alone. I didn't cut the bottom but sat it right to the bottom of the new so it could not grow any deeper. I did work the soil in with chop sticks. I was curious and removed a little bit of the new soil to peel and I saw new roots into the new soil so I got lucky. :)

Hopefully next year when I get my prebonsai tree I won't repeat these mistakes. Knowing myself I'm sure I'll make new ones :)
What does “undo” circling roots mean?

I cut mine off. Sharp scissors.
 
Messages
618
Likes
580
Location
Louisiana
USDA Zone
9A
#14
What does “undo” circling roots mean?

I cut mine off. Sharp scissors.
There were minimal amount of roots that only goes about 2 inches when they reached the edge of the pot so I pulled them out and spread them radially into the new soil.
 
Messages
618
Likes
580
Location
Louisiana
USDA Zone
9A
#15
Lessons learned. Even if I get lucky and the tree live and the air layers take. I won't do this again. Meanwhile my fingers are crossed.
 
Messages
160
Likes
261
Location
Slovakia, Central Europe
USDA Zone
8?
#17

petegreg

Masterpiece
Messages
2,657
Likes
3,512
Location
Slovakia
USDA Zone
6a
#18
The first picture shows jbp flowers/male pollen cones, buds and candles are somewhere under the flowers on the picture.
Is that an air-layered JBP on the second picture? The candles are elongating, that's good.
 
Messages
618
Likes
580
Location
Louisiana
USDA Zone
9A
#19
On all of them there are candles . At the top I cut off everything like George Muranaka does with his air layers and it formed a bunch of candles. On the weak bottom branch I did not cut the candle. It form s flower buds and a bunch of candles underneath the buds.

Should I nip the flower buds now?
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Top Bottom