JBP- Can you prune and candle?

Devo12

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Hey guys :)

Experts wanted - haha I was wondering if I had to remove this top apex now ? (In spring ) could I still de-candle some other branches in the same season ? Or would I have to the following year ?

Tree was also recently repotted . Due to pot bound
Thanks
 

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0soyoung

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The idea of 'decandling' is to do it something like 100 days before the first frost in your location. JBP will make new terminal buds that develop into shoots that don't have long necks (a length of stem with no needles) and do have shorter needles, their growth being stopped by cool winter temperatures. In Cape Town this is sometime around early January. The earlier you do this the longer the needles will be on the second or 'summer' candle. Doing it later makes shorter needles or just sets a bud that doesn't push until the next year.

You can prune branches most any time you wish. If you are looking for back budding, you should choose a time when the tree is actively growing, even though this is also likely to produce resin bleed. Resin bleed is simply built in cut paste in my view - it is a normal damage response and no cause for alarm. Generally I prune to reduce the foliage in areas that are growing too strongly compared to the rest of the tree. Of course, it depends upon my aims, but the principle is that more foliage begets more growth which begets more foliage. Want it thicker, let it run. Getting too heavy, thin the foliage.

Lastly, let me call it to your attention that the response of one branch is largely independent of what happens to the others. So you can experiment with individual branches to see the timing/response to pruning/decandling (you just have the problem of keeping those particular branches uniquely identified over several months time.). Nevertheless, the highest positioned bud(s) will tend to be the apex and fastest growing tip of the entire tree - the apex or sacrifice for trunk thickening.
 

Devo12

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The idea of 'decandling' is to do it something like 100 days before the first frost in your location. JBP will make new terminal buds that develop into shoots that don't have long necks (a length of stem with no needles) and do have shorter needles, their growth being stopped by cool winter temperatures. In Cape Town this is sometime around early January. The earlier you do this the longer the needles will be on the second or 'summer' candle. Doing it later makes shorter needles or just sets a bud that doesn't push until the next year.

You can prune branches most any time you wish. If you are looking for back budding, you should choose a time when the tree is actively growing, even though this is also likely to produce resin bleed. Resin bleed is simply built in cut paste in my view - it is a normal damage response and no cause for alarm. Generally I prune to reduce the foliage in areas that are growing too strongly compared to the rest of the tree. Of course, it depends upon my aims, but the principle is that more foliage begets more growth which begets more foliage. Want it thicker, let it run. Getting too heavy, thin the foliage.

Lastly, let me call it to your attention that the response of one branch is largely independent of what happens to the others. So you can experiment with individual branches to see the timing/response to pruning/decandling (you just have the problem of keeping those particular branches uniquely identified over several months time.). Nevertheless, the highest positioned bud(s) will tend to be the apex and fastest growing tip of the entire tree - the apex or sacrifice for trunk thickening.

Thank you!! Yes I want to remove it for design principles and to thicken the trunk (hopefully create some good taper ) because it’s basically one straight equal girth in the trunk. So if I had to remove it , I could still prune candles late summer as you say ? Or would the tree take too much suffering ?:)

Especially with the reporting , but I think the potting will do justice for the tree as it’s been in that pot most it’s life :/
Thanks again for the great direction
 

0soyoung

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I generally don't cut back in association with repotting because auxin from the buds drives root growth and the carbohydrates from photosynthesis are the energy and material for that root growth. Recovering from the repotting root damage is job#1.

I put pines right back into full sun after repotting and wait until it is again growing vigorously to do any pruning. You should be able to judge this by sometime around the time of your summer solstice and then decide about decandling/pruning.

Getting hasty will only cost you more time 'getting it there'. It can take years for the tree to recover from being treated in too hasty/aggressive a fashion, if it doesn't die outright.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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It is winter in Cape Town, spring will be soon.

If you have just repotted the tree to that pot it was sitting in, I would not do any pruning. The tree needs all the foliage to stimulate the growth of new roots. DO NOT do candle pruning. The new shoots produce auxin hormones, which are transported to the roots and signal root growth. IF you decandle, or prune, you will arrest root development, and delay the recovery from repotting.

If this tree was mine, I would leave it alone this year. Next year, spring 2021 you can decandle and prune at the same time. As long as there are still needles left on a branch you can prune back fairly hard in this spring decandle-pruning session.

About removing old needles. If you are not decandling for a year, do not remove old needles that year. That way, next year, when you decandle and prune, you can go back further, because you left old needles. Never prune to a bare stub of a branch, no buds will form on a branch with no needles.
 

Devo12

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It is winter in Cape Town, spring will be soon.

If you have just repotted the tree to that pot it was sitting in, I would not do any pruning. The tree needs all the foliage to stimulate the growth of new roots. DO NOT do candle pruning. The new shoots produce auxin hormones, which are transported to the roots and signal root growth. IF you decandle, or prune, you will arrest root development, and delay the recovery from repotting.

If this tree was mine, I would leave it alone this year. Next year, spring 2021 you can decandle and prune at the same time. As long as there are still needles left on a branch you can prune back fairly hard in this spring decandle-pruning session.

About removing old needles. If you are not decandling for a year, do not remove old needles that year. That way, next year, when you decandle and prune, you can go back further, because you left old needles. Never prune to a bare stub of a branch, no buds will form on a branch with no needles.

Thank you! How would I try create a thicker trunk ? Or would I have to look to do this only next year ? Regarding removing that top section
Thanks 🙏
 

Adair M

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Thank you! How would I try create a thicker trunk ? Or would I have to look to do this only next year ? Regarding removing that top section
Thanks 🙏
You develop thicker trunks by letting a “sacrifice brainchild” grow uninhibited.

Here is a patch of JBP with 12 foot tall sacrifice branches:

D4BCF58A-95D3-45B6-9218-D7EF9281B106.jpeg
 

hinmo24t

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after reading this thread i guess my kotobuki JBP will have to just be repot (roots) with not hardcut next year. it 4' and in a nursery pot...just got it this summer.

some good info in here, and the trees in above post are rad with those runners
 

Adair M

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The best results come from having just one at a time. The end of the sacrifice branch should be the tallest part of the tree. The tree will direct most of the thickening towards the apex. And everything between the roots and the tallest part of the tree will get the most thickening.

to create taper, the first sacrificeis cut off, and another is set to replace it. Chop and grow. Chop and grow...
 

Devo12

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The best results come from having just one at a time. The end of the sacrifice branch should be the tallest part of the tree. The tree will direct most of the thickening towards the apex. And everything between the roots and the tallest part of the tree will get the most thickening.

to create taper, the first sacrificeis cut off, and another is set to replace it. Chop and grow. Chop and grow...

Okay awesome . So I’d let the top piece grow for this season to let it strengthen and create a new one . :) I don’t want the top to thicken too much (of course )
 

Adair M

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Okay awesome . So I’d let the top piece grow for this season to let it strengthen and create a new one . :) I don’t want the top to thicken too much (of course )
Read the thread, “a few pine seeds 6 years later” by Eric Shafer.
 
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