JBP de-candling: all at once or in phases.

[Gsquared]

When it comes to de-candling my pines, I was taught to cut the lowest and weakest candles first, then 10days later the medium/middle candles, and finally the strongest one in another 10days. But it seems I am hearing more than a few people say take all the candles off at once. Anyone finding that better? Worse? Better budding?

 

[sorce]

When it comes to de-candling my pines, I was taught to cut the lowest and weakest candles first, then 10days later the medium/middle candles, and finally the strongest one in another 10days. But it seems I am hearing more than a few people say take all the candles off at once. Anyone finding that better? Worse? Better budding?

There is a Mirai stream on It that Solidified the simplicity of the event for me.

@PiñonJ episode? The grafted ponderosa one.
A free one sure.

Sorce

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Doing it in phases keeps the tree stronger, and it buds faster the second time. However, I have moved to cutting candles all at once, just for convenience. I just get them pumped up first, then leave longer stubs on the strongest candles, and progressively smaller stubs on the weaker/interior/lower shoots. The tree takes a couple weeks longer to complete the second growing cycle, but with good timing, that can be used as an advantage to getting the right needle size.

 

[Anthony]

Please have a good laugh. Tropics.
Probably due to sun, we no longer get candles.
Just knobs that sprout needles.

Pine behaves more like a broadleaf evergreen.

Have to alter the training techniques.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Dav4]

Doing it in phases keeps the tree stronger, and it buds faster the second time. However, I have moved to cutting candles all at once, just for convenience. I just get them pumped up first, then leave longer stubs on the strongest candles, and progressively smaller stubs on the weaker/interior/lower shoots. The tree takes a couple weeks longer to complete the second growing cycle, but with good timing, that can be used as an advantage to getting the right needle size.

My process as well... The KISS philosophy in action as it’s simple, efficient, and it works ?.

 

[Adair M]

I use the “all in one day” approach, too.

There is another advantage to using it: it’s a good time to wire. Right after decandling, within a week, is a good time to wire. After a week, don’t try. By that time, the second set of buds are forming, and they are extremely fragile and easily damaged.

It’s also possible to combine the two techniques. And you can really control balance using a combination.

One more comment: timing when you decandle is important. I do the big trees first, and the smallest trees last. Needle length is controlled by shortening the growing season. Big trees can have longer needles than the little ones, so by working them first, their second set of needles will have more time to grow before cold weather. Shohin should be decandled last so that they will have really short needles.

And JRP should be decandled a week to 10 days after JBP. It seems they recover faster from decandling than JBP.

 

[coh]

Only have one JBP at the stage where decandling is necessary, but I also do the all at once method.

 

[River's Edge]

Doing it in phases keeps the tree stronger, and it buds faster the second time. However, I have moved to cutting candles all at once, just for convenience. I just get them pumped up first, then leave longer stubs on the strongest candles, and progressively smaller stubs on the weaker/interior/lower shoots. The tree takes a couple weeks longer to complete the second growing cycle, but with good timing, that can be used as an advantage to getting the right needle size.

I only use the phased approach when the tree has very significantly differences in the weak and strong areas. This brings them into closer balance, then i use the one step method. As noted it is much more convenient.

 

[LanceMac10]

My process as well... The KISS philosophy in action as it’s simple, efficient, and it works ?.

Curious @Dav4 if you changed anything in your handling of JBP from when you lived in Massachusetts? I prefer the all at once approach if for no other reason than the pure hassle of keeping track thru twenty days!!! That's a pretty sizable chunk of the growing season here.

 

[Dav4]

Curious @Dav4 if you changed anything in your handling of JBP from when you lived in Massachusetts? I prefer the all at once approach if for no other reason than the pure hassle of keeping track thru twenty days!!! That's a pretty sizable chunk of the growing season here.

I was honestly just figuring out JBP when I moved south 9 years ago. Back then, they got full sun spring through fall and froze solid every winter... pretty much what I strive for here but they get less sun here only due to the yard where they reside now. I might have de-candled a few times prior to the move... may have even tried the staggered approach... but was really just learning on the fly and was experimenting and observing. Now, decandling takes place the first or second week in July... all in one go... big trees first, followed by shohin... killed my only JRP large enough to de-candle, but that one would have been done mid July, too.

 

[AndyJ]

Gsquared - I hope you don't mind me jumping on your thread with a JBP decandling query?

I have 4 young JBP's - all about 3-4 years old - and this year each has got a couple of candles that are 3-4 inches long and the first 2-3 inches are devoid of needles. This is one on one tree.




Is it ok to decandle this one candle on each tree that this is happening on? And if so, do I take it back to just above the needles as per normal decandling? Any idea why this might have happened?

Thanks,

Andy

 

[Dav4]

Gsquared - I hope you don't mind me jumping on your thread with a JBP decandling query?

I have 4 young JBP's - all about 3-4 years old - and this year each has got a couple of candles that are 3-4 inches long and the first 2-3 inches are devoid of needles. This is one on one tree.




Is it ok to decandle this one candle on each tree that this is happening on? And if so, do I take it back to just above the needles as per normal decandling? Any idea why this might have happened?

Thanks,

Andy

Candles that grow like that are simply very vigorous and grow longer and faster then other candles. If you're planning on having a branch there in the future, de-candling is fine and is actually important to do this year or else the foliage will be pushed too far from the trunk. If you don't want a branch there, you can remove it or use it for now as a sacrifice branch.

 

[AndyJ]

Thanks Dav. Is it common for vigourous growth on JBPs to do this? I think every picture I see of JBPs growing have loads of candles but with needles top to bottom - why has mine done this? Am I feeding too much? Or giving too much water? Do I need to change anything I'm doing?

 

[Adair M]

Andy, it’s happening because you have a very young tree that’s trying to grow! Perfectly normal!

 

[AndyJ]

Great - thanks Adair. I thought it was odd having a near bald candle!!

 

[Adair M]

Great - thanks Adair. I thought it was odd having a near bald candle!!

That section between the base and the first needle is called “the neck”. And long necks suck! You see, there are no buds of any kind in the neck. It will never, ever, under any circumstances backbud from the neck. There’s buds at the tips, and there’s a bud between the needles in each pair, but none in the neck!

When you decandle, the new shoots that will emerge (we call them “summer candles”) will have very short necks, or possibly no necks at all!

 

[bonhe]

That section between the base and the first needle is called “the neck”. And long necks suck! You see, there are no buds of any kind in the neck. It will never, ever, under any circumstances backbud from the neck. There’s buds at the tips, and there’s a bud between the needles in each pair, but none in the neck!

Thanks for new terminology: the neck! I never heard about it!
Any way, I actually found the new buds could appear in the neck area after I partially decanfled . If you take a look closer, there are many scales on the neck. Those scales are the buds ! May be my pines are too young, so they can easily wake up the buds. I have to look for the pictures in my file to show you
Bonhe

 

[Adair M]

There’s scales, but they’re sterile. You can get budding right at the base, but not, say, halfway from the base to the first needle.

 

[bonhe]

There’s scales, but they’re sterile. You can get budding right at the base, but not, say, halfway from the base to the first needle.

You need to wait and see. I will try to find out my pictures asap. If I can not find out, I will have an answer for you in a few months.
Bonhe

 

[Adair M]

You need to wait and see. I will try to find out my pictures asap. If I can not find out, I will have an answer for you in a few months.
Bonhe

I’ve been messing with JBP for over 40 years! And never once has one ever budded from the neck.

But I suppose I can wait for a couple months to be enlightened!