JBP freeze burn?

[Mayank]

Update on this tree. Outside all winter in the Detroit suburbs and although a generally milder than usual winter we still had days below 0F...

 

[Mayank]

Images from a couple of weeks ago. Buds are really starting to push now.

 

[roberthu]

Looking good! Thank you for the update. The other one is dead I assume?

 

[River's Edge]

Gotcha. Thanks for all your feedback! I really appreciate it.

How often did you water the pines through the winter?

 

[Mayank]

Looking good! Thank you for the update. The other one is dead I assume?

Yes died last year itself. It could've made it. It was pushing buds and then I let it get overwatered that wet spring (needed repotting that spring but I didn't want to traumatize it further) and it gave up the ghost...

 

[Mayank]

How often did you water the pines through the winter?

I wanted to do it once a week but realistically it was more once every other week cause I'd forget. Every time it snowed I would pile a bunch of it on the whole huddled collection/group and that sometimes lasted for days if not weeks.

 

[River's Edge]

I wanted to do it once a week but realistically it was more once every other week cause I'd forget. Every time it snowed I would pile a bunch of it on the whole huddled collection/group and that sometimes lasted for days if not weeks.

The reason I asked is due to the fact that Trees can dry out in buildings faster than we think during the winter. It is often the cause of pines dying even in much milder winters than yours. Buildings often fluctuate in temperature particularly those attached to heated buildings.

 

[Mayank]

The reason I asked is due to the fact that Trees can dry out in buildings faster than we think during the winter. It is often the cause of pines dying even in much milder winters than yours. Buildings often fluctuate in temperature particularly those attached to heated buildings.

Are you asking about last winter when they got hit real bad (the pics with all the brown needles were from 2018/19 winter)? At that time they were in the garage and watered once every week. This winter 2019/20 they were outside on soil, dug in a little and mulched up to the tree trunk level.

 

[M. Frary]

My suggestion if you're going to live in Michigan is to get a Michigan tough tree.
JBP have a tough time in the best parts of Michigan.
Ask Vance Wood how many he has and his experience with them.
JWP are borderline here.

 

[River's Edge]

Are you asking about last winter when they got hit real bad (the pics with all the brown needles were from 2018/19 winter)? At that time they were in the garage and watered once every week. This winter 2019/20 they were outside on soil, dug in a little and mulched up to the tree trunk level.

The question was to raise awareness that over wintering plants often requires more constant watering than we realize. This can also be true with plants heeled into the landscape. Often they are in sheltered spots beside foundations that can dry out more than we realize. Simply put I just raised the question for your consideration.

 

[Mayank]

My suggestion if you're going to live in Michigan is to get a Michigan tough tree.
JBP have a tough time in the best parts of Michigan.
Ask Vance Wood how many he has and his experience with them.
JWP are borderline here.

Well this one's been in Michigan for decades with @vancehanna until I acquired it from him a few years ago. He didn't even really protect it much except to bring it down from the stand and leave it on pea gravel. In my care it is the most protected one out of all my outdoors trees and it didn't skip a beat this year so I'm hopeful. @vancehanna also had a huge jwp that did just fine in his care over here in Michigan (it was grafted though). I'm attaching a photo of it for everyone's viewing pleasure.

Over wintering plants often requires more constant watering than we realize. This can also be true with plants heeled into the landscape.

Thanks for your input Frank. I have a question about the ones that are heeled in and buried under mulch. They're also in a low sun area basically in shade mostly. How do I gauge how much to water and how often? I've just been generally going out in dryer times if we've not had snow or rain and watered them down. Not super scientific but it's worked so far. The only bad season I had in over a decade was when I had all of them in my garage last year which still bums me out.

 

[Mayank]

My suggestion if you're going to live in Michigan is to get a Michigan tough tree.

I generally do agree with you on this point. However I did not necessarily seek to buy a JBP but ended up with Hanna's which I'm trying to keep alive if possible because giving it away is not an option (sentimental reasons); plus this tree is totally adjusted to Michigan otherwise. Also if I only had Michigan tough trees then I would have missed out on the Chinese elm that acquired from Rod. Every winter I do feel a pang of regret though for getting it because of the additional work to coddle it☺

 

[River's Edge]

Well this one's been in Michigan for decades with @vancehanna until I acquired it from him a few years ago. He didn't even really protect it much except to bring it down from the stand and leave it on pea gravel. In my care it is the most protected one out of all my outdoors trees and it didn't skip a beat this year so I'm hopeful. @vancehanna also had a huge jwp that did just fine in his care over here in Michigan (it was grafted though). I'm attaching a photo of it for everyone's viewing pleasure.

Thanks for your input Frank. I have a question about the ones that are heeled in and buried under mulch. They're also in a low sun area basically in shade mostly. How do I gauge how much to water and how often? I've just been generally going out in dryer times if we've not had snow or rain and watered them down. Not super scientific but it's worked so far. The only bad season I had in over a decade was when I had all of them in my garage last year which still bums me out.

Most effective way is to check the soil an inch or two below the surface. If it is dry then water. When heeling in pots it is a good idea to ensure larger particles below the pots to ensure drainage continues and does not back up in the pot itself due to being buried in regular soil. You can simply throw a scrap of carpet or like material under. As normal do not water when ground frozen and leave time for pot to drain and dry a bit if a hard freeze is expected. The difficulty is we often over winter close to a foundation of a heated building and this affects the soil temperatures more so than away from a building. I tend to think given protection as you suggest JBP should be fine, particularly if near a foundation of a heated building.

 

[Mayank]

Most effective way is to check the soil an inch or two below the surface. If it is dry then water. When heeling in pots it is a good idea to ensure larger particles below the pots to ensure drainage continues and does not back up in the pot itself due to being buried in regular soil. You can simply throw a scrap of carpet or like material under. As normal do not water when ground frozen and leave time for pot to drain and dry a bit if a hard freeze is expected. The difficulty is we often over winter close to a foundation of a heated building and this affects the soil temperatures more so than away from a building. I tend to think given protection as you suggest JBP should be fine, particularly if near a foundation of a heated building.

Thank you for taking the time to put in all the detail. I'm sure many will benefit from your input.

 

[LanceMac10]

Well this one's been in Michigan for decades with @vancehanna until I acquired it from him a few years ago. He didn't even really protect it much except to bring it down from the stand and leave it on pea gravel. In my care it is the most protected one out of all my outdoors trees and it didn't skip a beat this year so I'm hopeful. @vancehanna also had a huge jwp that did just fine in his care over here in Michigan (it was grafted though). I'm attaching a photo of it for everyone's viewing pleasure.

Thanks for your input Frank. I have a question about the ones that are heeled in and buried under mulch. They're also in a low sun area basically in shade mostly. How do I gauge how much to water and how often? I've just been generally going out in dryer times if we've not had snow or rain and watered them down. Not super scientific but it's worked so far. The only bad season I had in over a decade was when I had all of them in my garage last year which still bums me out.

This looks like a JWP to me @Mayank .

 

[Mayank]

@LanceMac10 you're right that one is a jwp as I'd said in the post "@vancehanna also had a huge jwp that did just fine in his care over here in Michigan (it was grafted though). I'm attaching a photo of it for everyone's viewing pleasure."

 

[Mayank]

That's a jwp as I'd mentioned in post #31. My pics are of a JBP.

 

[vancehanna]

With care and proper protection Japanese Pine (in general) including Thunbergii, Parviflora both will do very well in MI. It is something that I will attest to after over 45 yrs of growing them in that zone. However, without a doubt, here in CA they THRIVE...and are a tad more bullet proof. So give it up, get your big boy pants on and learn to produce the correct and safe wintering (ie if you wish to live in MI and grow these species) like the talented Dr has. On another note, the species of Picea or Spruce found in N. Michigan Picea mariana or Black Spruce is definitely overlooked as bonsai. Why I have no idea but if one were to compare needle length of this to Ezo it is nearly the same. In fact I recall when John Naka visited FSBC back then, an individual had a collected one and Naka was quite impressed with the specie (not necessarily the actual bonsai if you could have called it such). There is an entire Northern portion of MI awaiting the collector. If I recall one guy, Bruce Baker from A2 had a few back about 45 yrs ago....I don't know if he's still into bonsai or not. Here is one I had back over 20yrs ago. It was collected by George Randall in N. MI probably a decade earlier. It was sold quite a while back. It took a few awards and of course the MABA award. Looking back I am sorry I sold it and would pull those branches down and create a crown. (And it was planted in one of the pots I'd made...LOL)

 

[Mayank]

Get your big boy pants on

LOL. At first I thought you were talking about me and I was like, "hey!"

 

[River's Edge]

Well this one's been in Michigan for decades with @vancehanna until I acquired it from him a few years ago. He didn't even really protect it much except to bring it down from the stand and leave it on pea gravel. In my care it is the most protected one out of all my outdoors trees and it didn't skip a beat this year so I'm hopeful. @vancehanna also had a huge jwp that did just fine in his care over here in Michigan (it was grafted though). I'm attaching a photo of it for everyone's viewing pleasure.

Thanks for your input Frank. I have a question about the ones that are heeled in and buried under mulch. They're also in a low sun area basically in shade mostly. How do I gauge how much to water and how often? I've just been generally going out in dryer times if we've not had snow or rain and watered them down. Not super scientific but it's worked so far. The only bad season I had in over a decade was when I had all of them in my garage last year which still bums me out.

Outstanding tree! Love it!