JBP - Good Buy? Good Material? What do you think?

[defra]

I would pay a maximum of 100$ for it

In 6 years its worthless since almost every bnut is growing tons of jbp for the 6 years contest
So in 6 years lots of jpb starters are availible troughout the world haha

 

[LanceMac10]

https://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-zoek.../IMG_8910__60708.1528806135.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

$455......'nother $40 plus if your shipping...….
Something a bit similar, some of the tree's qualities are better than your intended purchase, some are not. East coast prices!!
It's about access and availability. If you want to wait around for "ideal starter material" in Oklahoma, I feel you could be waiting for awhile.
But really, how much does it cost?!?!

 

[M. Frary]

https://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-zoek.../IMG_8910__60708.1528806135.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

$455......'nother $40 plus if your shipping...….
Something a bit similar, some of the tree's qualities are better than your intended purchase, some are not. East coast prices!!
It's about access and availability. If you want to wait around for "ideal starter material" in Oklahoma, I feel you could be waiting for awhile.
But really, how much does it cost?!?!

Must be a space tree.
Because that price is out of this world!

 

[LanceMac10]

If anybody wondered, I would not buy the tree I linked. Maybe if I knew how to graft well, but I'm not buying material lately.
Let's just say that dental expenses for a 5 year old are INSANE!!!

 

[defra]

If anybody wondered, I would not buy the tree I linked. Maybe if I knew how to graft well, but I'm not buying material lately.
Let's just say that dental expenses for a 5 year old are INSANE!!!

Bummer dude hope little one is well tough
Kids here are always insured and the costs only run up untill the "own risk" fee is reached about 350 € a year

 

[BrianBay9]

Well, you said REBS “was the biggest and best”.

I think Al meant biggest and best club show. Granted, I haven't been to every show in the country, but the only club show I've seen that can compete with REBS is the Chicago show - going on this weekend I believe. Fewer trees shown at the Chicago show though.

As for the tree, we can probably find better JBP for $100 or so here in California, but it might be tough in Oklahoma. I'll be up at REBS next Saturday looking for those very trees!

 

[Adair M]

I think Al meant biggest and best club show. Granted, I haven't been to every show in the country, but the only club show I've seen that can compete with REBS is the Chicago show - going on this weekend I believe. Fewer trees shown at the Chicago show though.

As for the tree, we can probably find better JBP for $100 or so here in California, but it might be tough in Oklahoma. I'll be up at REBS next Saturday looking for those very trees!

I used as a basis George Muranaka’s trees. They are about that size and level of development.

Comparing the quality of Club shows is difficult. At BIB, trees are vetted by Boon. If he determines a tree is not yet ready to be shown, it doesn’t get shown. I have no idea what the rules are at REBS. I am a member of the Atlanta Bonsai Society, and we encourage everyone to show. We have different levels: Expert, Hobbiest, and Novice. Obviously, the Novice trees would not fare well when compared to the Expert’s. (Unfortunately, too many of our members consider themselves “experts”!)

I judged the Knoxville club’s show, and they, too, encourage novices to show.

So, it can be a mixed bag.

But... we’re WAY off topic here. Happens a lot on BNut.

Please post a photo of all the $100 pines you see for sale at REBS.

 

[Maloghurst]

So the inverse taper shouldn't be of concern? Does the aspect of a quality tree to learn from out weigh the flaws in the tree?

Looks to me that from the third picture view you don’t really see much inverse taper. Most trees have some flaws and you can hide them. Also the nebari is not that bad from the third view. The bar branch is not a bar branch from the front either. Looks to be a side and back branch. If that’s what is creating the inverse taper then I would have to go eventually. There is already callousing on the chop scar on the back. It would be easy the thicken the top section as well.
Again it looks like a 150 tree.
I would love to see someone post someone selling a tree like this for 100 or less?
Also the bark looks pretty good too.
What is the price!

 

[Bananaman]

I think Al meant biggest and best club show. Granted, I haven't been to every show in the country, but the only club show I've seen that can compete with REBS is the Chicago show - going on this weekend I believe. Fewer trees shown at the Chicago show though.

As for the tree, we can probably find better JBP for $100 or so here in California, but it might be tough in Oklahoma. I'll be up at REBS next Saturday looking for those very trees!

Then I'll have to be there when the doors open. You have a head start, thats cheating.

 

[BrianBay9]

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I bought this one last year for $100. Base is almost 3 inches and it's destined to be a shohin. Hard to see, but in the second photo I circled the candle that I'm developing as a new top. I know it's not easy to compare shohin stock to other stock, but I'm happy with this purchase for the price.

 

[Maloghurst]

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I bought this one last year for $100. Base is almost 3 inches and it's destined to be a shohin. Hard to see, but in the second photo I circled the candle that I'm developing as a new top. I know it's not easy to compare shohin stock to other stock, but I'm happy with this purchase for the price.

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Your not hijacking the thread because I think your post helps with the question of this trees value.
Your tree looks like a $100 tree to me as well.
The other tree already has taper and movement even if the base is only 2 inches and not 3. The branches are more developed and the chop scar is already healing and the needles are smaller.
As Adair stated, add some wire and start developing this as a bonsai. Yours has a several years just developing the next section of trunk. And you need to hope for lower branching also yes?
I’m still really curious what the asking price of the tree is because if he is online anywhere they are probably asking 200 or more. I’m only going by everything I’ve seen online which is overpriced usually.

 

[Adair M]

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I bought this one last year for $100. Base is almost 3 inches and it's destined to be a shohin. Hard to see, but in the second photo I circled the candle that I'm developing as a new top. I know it's not easy to compare shohin stock to other stock, but I'm happy with this purchase for the price.

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It’s tough to get a 3 inch base into a Shohin pot. And I think you will wants some lower branches, too.

Developing a Shohin JBP is more difficult than it appears.

Just curious, that, too, looks like a George Muranaka tree. Which vendor sold that one?

 

[BrianBay9]

It’s tough to get a 3 inch base into a Shohin pot. And I think you will wants some lower branches, too.

Developing a Shohin JBP is more difficult than it appears.

Just curious, that, too, looks like a George Muranaka tree. Which vendor sold that one?

I agree, and this is the first time I'm trying to develop a shohin JBP. I'm working with advice from some of the most experienced members of my club on this one. Definitely a project. I guess I put priority on the base first, then work on the rest. The tree in the OP has more problems at the base than I would like in something I'm considering purchasing.

Yes, this was from George Muranaka.

 

[BrianBay9]

Your not hijacking the thread because I think your post helps with the question of this trees value.
Your tree looks like a $100 tree to me as well.
The other tree already has taper and movement even if the base is only 2 inches and not 3. The branches are more developed and the chop scar is already healing and the needles are smaller.
As Adair stated, add some wire and start developing this as a bonsai. Yours has a several years just developing the next section of trunk. And you need to hope for lower branching also yes?
I’m still really curious what the asking price of the tree is because if he is online anywhere they are probably asking 200 or more. I’m only going by everything I’ve seen online which is overpriced usually.

The OP tree has some taper in the lower trunk from one view only, inverse taper, and the nebari is awkward at best. Not being critical, but perhaps I'm place higher value on these characteristics than others here might. I have no doubt that the OP tree will be a great tree to learn on if the price is right.

Yes, my tree is a project that will take a significant amount of time to develop. The lower branching has good placement though - will work fine for the design. I do have to grow a new top and will have a chop to heal.

I bought this tree in person, not on line, giving me the opportunity to negotiate face to face, see the tree in person and avoid shipping. If I remember correctly his original asking price for this was $150, but I might be mis-remembering.

 

[Adair M]

The OP tree has some taper in the lower trunk from one view only, inverse taper, and the nebari is awkward at best. Not being critical, but perhaps I'm place higher value on these characteristics than others here might. I have no doubt that the OP tree will be a great tree to learn on if the price is right.

Yes, my tree is a project that will take a significant amount of time to develop. The lower branching has good placement though - will work fine for the design. I do have to grow a new top and will have a chop to heal.

I bought this tree in person, not on line, giving me the opportunity to negotiate face to face, see the tree in person and avoid shipping. If I remember correctly his original asking price for this was $150, but I might be mis-remembering.

Well, that means my pricing was spot on, wasn’t it?

Of course, it’s possible to haggle at a show, but not so much over the Internet.

All of George’s JBP are developed the same way. Field grown, he’s good about keeping low branches cut back, he chops above the second whorl. There’s never any taper between the nebari and the chop to speak of. There’s usually a branch that can be wired up to start a new apex, but the change in caliper will always make it look like it was chopped.

If you want to chop yours at the first whorl and use that little twig to be the new apex, you will need to put it back in the ground, or a large grow box and let it go for a couple years. Like 5 years. Then chop again. But then, that base will REALLY be too big for a Shohin pot.

Now, since you are going to REBS, I’m sure Jonas will be vending. Check out his little trees. They will be a LOT more expensive. But, they will have many, many more low branches. With taper that starts at the nebari. The branches will start off closer to the nebari.

These are trees that can be developed into good Shohin.

George’s trees are good for learning how to wire, style, decandle, etc.

 

[BrianBay9]

Well, that means my pricing was spot on, wasn’t it?

Of course, it’s possible to haggle at a show, but not so much over the Internet.

All of George’s JBP are developed the same way. Field grown, he’s good about keeping low branches cut back, he chops above the second whorl. There’s never any taper between the nebari and the chop to speak of. There’s usually a branch that can be wired up to start a new apex, but the change in caliper will always make it look like it was chopped.

If you want to chop yours at the first whorl and use that little twig to be the new apex, you will need to put it back in the ground, or a large grow box and let it go for a couple years. Like 5 years. Then chop again. But then, that base will REALLY be too big for a Shohin pot.

Now, since you are going to REBS, I’m sure Jonas will be vending. Check out his little trees. They will be a LOT more expensive. But, they will have many, many more low branches. With taper that starts at the nebari. The branches will start off closer to the nebari.

These are trees that can be developed into good Shohin.

George’s trees are good for learning how to wire, style, decandle, etc.

I'm sure you're right. This is my first attempt to develop a JBP shohin, so be definition, I'm using it to learn. I'll do my best and we'll see how it turns out after a few years. This one is better than the last one I bought. Hopefully the next one will be better than this one. The best I can shoot for is continuous improvement in my collection.

 

[Adair M]

I'm sure you're right. This is my first attempt to develop a JBP shohin, so be definition, I'm using it to learn. I'll do my best and we'll see how it turns out after a few years. This one is better than the last one I bought. Hopefully the next one will be better than this one. The best I can shoot for is continuous improvement in my collection.

Ok, I’ll give you some advice on developing a “George” tree.

Treat it like it’s a yamadori.

It was field grown. Which means it once had long, extending roots. Which were cut back extensively to get into those little green pots.

Then, he uses standard nurserymen’s soil. Which helps keep the tree hydrated, but isn’t spectacular for root growth.

So, I would NOT do the chop you are anticipating until you have had it in better soil for a year! And by better soil, I don’t nevessarily mean Boon Mix. I would treat this like a yamadori, and put it in a grow box (or larger pot) that is an inch to an inch and a half wider in all directions. (If it’s in a 6 inch pot, I would move to a 9 inch.)

Tease out as much of George’s soil as you can with tweezers and root hook, and pot it into pumice. Don’t wash with water. You could use a potting mix of pumice and lava. No need for akadama, but you will have to make sure it’s watered. Do secure it in tightly to the box (pot) with wire).

After it’s settled in for a month, then begin fertilizing.

After a year, THEN chop it if you like.

 

[BrianBay9]

Ok, I’ll give you some advice on developing a “George” tree.

Treat it like it’s a yamadori.

It was field grown. Which means it once had long, extending roots. Which were cut back extensively to get into those little green pots.

Then, he uses standard nurserymen’s soil. Which helps keep the tree hydrated, but isn’t spectacular for root growth.

So, I would NOT do the chop you are anticipating until you have had it in better soil for a year! And by better soil, I don’t nevessarily mean Boon Mix. I would treat this like a yamadori, and put it in a grow box (or larger pot) that is an inch to an inch and a half wider in all directions. (If it’s in a 6 inch pot, I would move to a 9 inch.)

Tease out as much of George’s soil as you can with tweezers and root hook, and pot it into pumice. Don’t wash with water. You could use a potting mix of pumice and lava. No need for akadama, but you will have to make sure it’s watered. Do secure it in tightly to the box (pot) with wire).

After it’s settled in for a month, then begin fertilizing.

After a year, THEN chop it if you like.

Good advice. This one came in free draining bonsai soil. It's been growing strongly for almost a year in my hands.

 

[Dav4]

Some jbp seedlings I’ve been working on for maybe 5 years are headed to the ABS auction today-$20-$40 starting bid- get em while they’re hot!

 

[Johnathan]

Sorry for taking so long to respond. Here is the backstory as was told to me, remember the guy knows I'mnot that skilled, so I'm sure he dumbed down the explanation lol:

"I acquired this tree in 2010 along with 99 others from Lawyer tree nursery. They were 2-1 transplants. The Lawyer website explains this. Basically they were pulled from the field and then replanted for an additional season of growth. Some advantages to this are that the original tap root was cut so they have a better root system close to the trunk. Also, the trees have demonstrated that they are vigorous enough to survive being transplanted. They were at least 2 years old when I got them in 2010. They were established in squat 1 gallon growing pots with bonsai soil. They were set in a growing bed and allowed to root through the drain holes and run in open ground for 4 to 6 years. I dug everything from the bed in 2017 and repotted. "

Now taking a lot of things into account, the inverse taper, etc, etc, the fact that Al didn't offer to sell me a pine for $50 etc, etc, nebari.....

I have agreed to purchase the tree. Here is why. This guy is not a bonsai nursery, or seller for profit, just someone who loves the hobby. I'm not in Cali or the West coast, so reasonable material selections and prices don't come around very often. This place will be swarming with JBP in 6 years, I will hopefully by then be ready for more lol

The communication on this agreement was honest, trustworthy, and I believe the guy is really just a good guy throwing a newbie a bone. And I'll gladly take that.

I'm hoping to also attend my first workshop when I pick up the tree, but that's a different thread for future discussion.

I'm sure I could've got the price dropped just by asking since I am going to drive about 45 mins - hour for the tree, but given the pleasant nature of the seller agreed against even trying.

Factoring the pot, and tree I have agreed to acquire this for $115.00.