JBP Learning Lesson

irene_b

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Sure Chris!

Shall we go Branch by Branch?
I think folks could follow along much better than to have a blanket statement to remove needles. :D
And Yes Folks it was on purpose.
It does come back to the KISS on instructions.
My weather here in South Texas allows for some advanced gardening and we can and do work our trees just a little differently because of it.
Plus the predictions are for a La Nina weather pattern which means a warm winter....
Mom
 

Graydon

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Am I the only one here that is a bit confused? At some point is someone going to clearly state to NEVER do this to a tree in development? Especially in early development when the tree needs all of those needles to grow?
 

irene_b

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Am I the only one here that is a bit confused? At some point is someone going to clearly state to NEVER do this to a tree in development? Especially in early development when the tree needs all of those needles to grow?


Thank You Graydon!
Mom
 
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The tree needed all of this year's needles to get stronger. Last year's and 2 year old needles get in the way more than they help at this stage. So let's get another tree going and we will start by identifying the oldest needles and removing only them at first.
 
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On a tree at this stage of development, removing as many new needles as you did may damage the tree. I doubt it will be in any serious danger.

Am I the only one here that is a bit confused? At some point is someone going to clearly state to NEVER do this to a tree in development? Especially in early development when the tree needs all of those needles to grow?

Graydon, the response I gave was my third. I wrote it twice without posting before I got it where I thought it should be. Perhaps I softened it too much in the attempt not to preempt continuing this thread.

Graydon is right, this many needles should never be removed from a tree at this stage of development. While it may not kill the tree it will have exactly the opposite result that you are looking for.
 

irene_b

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When Chris and I talked about starting this thread it was with the intention of following his suggestions/instructions.
In the pursuit of teaching Bonsai I am very willing to pay the price and risk losing trees so that others may learn.
This tree will live...Of this I have no doubts based upon my knowledge and experiance.

My point in this is teaching new Bonsaiist what can and cannot be done to their trees.

The KISS principle is simple.
You have to give specific instructions and not ask a person to hunt down the information that was given in one thread or another.

Each thread here as well as elsewhere goes off the inital topic too fast for a beginner to understand that it is no longer a discussion on just the one item.

Those that know me, understand that I am a willing participant in letting others learn on my trees, and the pursuit of knowledge is the major key to advancing in Bonsai.
I learned a long time ago the tuition in Bonsai is dead trees and have killed many of them over the many years.
But if by killing a tree someone new in Bonsai or perhaps and older Bonsaiist just starting out with a new species learns....than to me it was well worth it.
Mom
Irene
 

rlist

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I like the principle of this thread, and think that we (I) can learn from the interactions between you two. However, as I read through this, getting to the point of all the needles being removed, I was somewhat shocked in that it went from a suggestion to a complete act, without any intermediate interaction. The tree may or may not live, but I think the most important part of this initial thread, assuming that more will come, is perfecting the process of thread-based tutilage.

I believe that more specific and concrete information can be published by the teacher, and then have the student come back and ask any questions to clarify prior to the act happening. Short, one sentence responses with a single pics didn't seem to adequately convey the message, so maybe the teacher could give more info, including the current issue, the desired course of action, and the expected short/long term result. Student would say - this is what I heard, and here is how I would proceed. The teacher could then bless the actions and the step could be completed.

KISS is right, but I think that more and better communication would be in order if this is to be a successful process...
 

irene_b

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I like the principle of this thread, and think that we (I) can learn from the interactions between you two. However, as I read through this, getting to the point of all the needles being removed, I was somewhat shocked in that it went from a suggestion to a complete act, without any intermediate interaction. The tree may or may not live, but I think the most important part of this initial thread, assuming that more will come, is perfecting the process of thread-based tutilage.

I believe that more specific and concrete information can be published by the teacher, and then have the student come back and ask any questions to clarify prior to the act happening. Short, one sentence responses with a single pics didn't seem to adequately convey the message, so maybe the teacher could give more info, including the current issue, the desired course of action, and the expected short/long term result. Student would say - this is what I heard, and here is how I would proceed. The teacher could then bless the actions and the step could be completed.

KISS is right, but I think that more and better communication would be in order if this is to be a successful process...




Yes Rich!
Communications is the key.
And we will be starting a new thread on the next JBP.
Stay tuned...
Mom
 

rlist

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Before you want my advice or for me to make a decision, please tell me the rest of the story...
 

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I like the principle of this thread, and think that we (I) can learn from the interactions between you two. However, as I read through this, getting to the point of all the needles being removed, I was somewhat shocked in that it went from a suggestion to a complete act, without any intermediate interaction. The tree may or may not live, but I think the most important part of this initial thread, assuming that more will come, is perfecting the process of thread-based tutilage.

I believe that more specific and concrete information can be published by the teacher, and then have the student come back and ask any questions to clarify prior to the act happening. Short, one sentence responses with a single pics didn't seem to adequately convey the message, so maybe the teacher could give more info, including the current issue, the desired course of action, and the expected short/long term result. Student would say - this is what I heard, and here is how I would proceed. The teacher could then bless the actions and the step could be completed.

KISS is right, but I think that more and better communication would be in order if this is to be a successful process...

I think that's a fantastic point, Rich. I don't want to assume more than the student knows, and especially if there are true beginners watching the thread. So going forward, a real lesson here is being a little more timid in acting and a little more agressive in communicating will enhance the online tutelage. If I were there in person, of course, I could have stopped the madness!
 
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Okay, okay, let's move along, folks. Irene, show us another tree! If it's JBP, let's do it in this thread.
 

Tachigi

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I just read this thread and guess I got it confused with Chris's other one "well documented JBP". All I have to say is OMAN.

I think teaching in a venue like this is challenging. I think its great to see the effort and is to be commended. I would make a suggestion though. When we were young and sat in the classroom with our beanie copter caps on, we used text books as a base line as a teacher explained the subject. I would encourage this if this type of tutelage is attempted again. I would think a good book on pines with a lot of pictures be used as that base line. Would save on a lot of miscommunication and set backs.

Now would everyone please pass in there homework.
 
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No, you would have been clearer in your instructions.(LOL)
Mom

Irene, I circled the needles I wanted you to remove. Let's go on and try again, in the absence of a textbook that might do us some good.
 

John Hill

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Yes I am waiting Irene?!!

Chris,
Can I ask you one question before Irene posts another one of her pines?

A Friend in bonsai
John
 

John Hill

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Chris:
What are the two most important tools you use for pines?? Besides cutters ;)

A Friend in bonsai
John
 
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irene_b

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JBP #2
This the same age.
Irene
 
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irene_b

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And more.
picture taken of full then the base.
 
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