JBP Literati

[Jure_v]

Your ”understanding” is WAY, WAY off base.

JBP decandling timing depends on your local climate, mostly. And then, the size of the tree comes into play, as well.

For JBP, the longer your growing season, the later in the summer you decandle. It does NOT matter how much or little the candle or needles have grown, it the TIMING that matters. After decandling, the new shoots will have a certain period of time remaining in the growing season. That about of time determines how long the new needles will be able to grow before cold weather shuts them down. The general concensus is that it takes 100 days after decandling for the new shoots and needles to grow to maturity. So, find out the date of the “first expected frost”, and count back 100 days, and that’s about as late in the summer as you can decandle.

How does the size of the tree affect the timing? Well a large JBP looks better with slightly longer needles. A Shohin JBP would look better with shorter needles. Therefore, decandle the big trees earlier so their needles will have more growing season, and decandle the shohin later, so that their needles will be shorter.

This is something of a dark art, and you will have to try it and see how your trees respond. The weather can vary each year, and that can affect the tree’s response. Also, if you have repotted in the spring, the tree might not be strong enough to decandle that summer.

Single flush pines are generally not decandled. You can pinch back (shorten) the too strong shoots in spring, but if you completely remove the whole candle, the tree might not replace it.

Thanks Adair for good explanation. It is much more clear now for double flush it is only important the time left for the second flush to get mature before freezing.

EDIT: Is this technique suitable for developement or for maintenance of bonsai?

 

[LanceMac10]

What are your coordinates, @Jure_v ? Put it in your profile.


JBP's are pretty resilient/vigorous. A great candidate for "experimentation". Helps to be located somewhere with mild winters and a fairly lengthy growing season.

De-candling isn't normally associated with development techniques...but it depends....and judging from your query, you might not even be into the "development" stage.


Get out there and start working your material. Note reactions and realize bonsai takes some time to see results and learn from same.
Enjoy!!

 

[Jure_v]

I live in Slovenia.
With developement i meant early stages like taking nursery plant and start with that. Ok, this one also should grow.
Actually i dont have any JBP. i was just confused with decandling.
This year is my first year into bonsai more seriously and i have few mugos and one sylvestris since spring.

 

[LanceMac10]

I live in Slovenia.
With developement i meant early stages like taking nursery plant and start with that. Ok, this one also should grow.
Actually i dont have any JBP. i was just confused with decandling.
This year is my first year into bonsai more seriously and i have few mugos and one sylvestris since spring.

Mugos and sylvestris are not handled the same as JBP.

 

[Adair M]

Both of those, Mugo and Scots, are considered “single flush’ pines. Treat them more like Japanese White Pine.

The reason I say that is there is a lot of literature written on JWP, not so much on Mugo and Scots. This forum has more info about Mugo than anywhere else, but most of it is based upon taking Mugo nursery stock in the US, and transforming it into something resembling a tree. The Mugo that’s available to you may (probably is) very different. Mugo in the US are grown by the landscape nurseries with the goal of creating shrubbery, not trees.

 

[Jure_v]

I know they are single flush pines and need to be dealt differently.
I was a bit confused with decandling. I thought it meant to cut candles not elongated shoots on JBP.

Mugos here also grow in nurseries for schrubes. A lot of them. But you are right we have them here in nature so we can get some good yamadori too. I have on my plan for next year to find one. We will see how it goes. And yes here is a lot of info about them. I read whole thread about them The mugo train.

P.s. sorry i hijack this one. :S

 

[Adair M]

I know they are single flush pines and need to be dealt differently.
I was a bit confused with decandling. I thought it meant to cut candles not elongated shoots on JBP.

Mugos here also grow in nurseries for schrubes. A lot of them. But you are right we have them here in nature so we can get some good yamadori too. I have on my plan for next year to find one. We will see how it goes. And yes here is a lot of info about them. I read whole thread about them The mugo train.

P.s. sorry i hijack this one. :S

Yes, the word “decandle” is somewhat confusing. Depending upon your climate, the new year’s growth could still be in the “candle” stage, or it could have grown fully formed and developed needles! What it means is the entirety of the current year’s growth is removed. The entire shoot.

(Some methods leave some stub behind intentionally, but to be considered a “decandle”, all the new needles should be cut off.)

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Good grief, what a great tree! Even a nice crop of lichen. I'm jealous.
I have a volunteer that I brought from my last house. Too smooth and young.



Maybe in 10 years or so.

Refreshing to see a JBP literati.

And no one suggesting a trunk chop.

 

[JPM]

I'll look for your thread to address your specific questions.

But, since it is appropriate for this thread, a bit about "half bare rooting":

You will not see much, if any, description or instructions about "half bare rooting" (HBR) in any book. To the best of my knowledge, this technique started with Boon. I may be wrong about that, if so, I apologize in advance. But, until I started studying with Boon, I had never heard of it, and I've been doing bonsai 40 plus years.

Bare rooting deciduous trees just before the bud out has long been a standard procedure. They appear to do just fine. Conifers, however, don't like it, and it can seriously set them back or kill them! That is one of the reasons imported conifers are so expensive: they are bare rooted when shipped, and then reported upon arrival here in the US. Unfortunately, many don't survive being barerooted.

Conifers prefer a free draining soil when kept in bonsai pots. Newly collected yamadori, and even nursery grown trees often have soil that provides inadequate drainage, or stays too wet. This can cause either root rot, or there can just be no active roots at all in the part of the root ball closest to the trunk.

So, this old "mountain duff" in the case of yamadori, or old worn out potting soil in the case of nursery material needs to be replaced. Soil close to the bottom of the trunk needs to be replaced? How do we do that without bare rooting the tree?

HBR:

Start off doing a regular "repot" procedure. Then, determine which half of the rootball is the "weakest". Bare root the weak half. Leave the strongest part untouched so it will continue to sustain the tree while the weak part regenerates. If the tree is really weak, don't do a full "half". Do a third, or a quarter. The object is to begin replacing the old soil with new hood bonsai soil, but not kill the tree in the process.

You've heard the old joke, The Doctor comes into the waiting room and tells the family that "The operation was a success, but the patient died"... We don't want that!

So, using root hooks, bent tip tweezers, chopsticks, etc., remove as much soil as you can on the weak side, and get up under the trunk and get the old soil out from under 1/2 of it. Wash it off with a gentle rinse of water. Don't pressure wash it off! Try to leave the other side as undisturbed as possible.

Then pot in a pot, or box, or colander, being sure to get new soil back into where you removed all the old soil, leaving no air pockets. Use chopsticks, but don't overdo it! It's easy to break what few good roots you have with over enthusiastic chopsticking! Backfill with soil, and settle it in by giving the pot a few taps with the meat if your fist. Water throughly.

In a couple years, do the other half. If you only did a third, you only have to wait a year to do another third.

Now... The question has come up: "What about watering?" Should I water for the new soil? Or the old soil?

The answer: it's virtually impossible to overwater good bonsai soil. The drainage is such that excess water will pass right through. Therefore, water according to the needs of the old soil. Certainly, if the old soil is really water retentive, and you don't need to water very often, you may need to make sure the new soil. Usually, the problem is the old soil is so compacted that water doesn't penetrate into the center of the rootball. In this case, you need to water a lot do that the old rootball gets some water. The new soil will let any excess drain on out.

Now, why isn't this in any of the books? For the most part, the books discuss how to repot existing bonsai that have already been growing in good bonsai soil. In Japan, they grow their nursery stock in bonsai soil, so a switch over isn't needed.

Finally, don't forget that a HBR is still considered major rootwork. It's best to give the tree a rest after that to let it build a good strong root system. If you have a good root system, then you can be more aggressive with other training procedures. The fact that you needed to do a HBR is an indication that the tree is weak, and so it would be better to wait until the tree is stronger to do anything else.

Thanks

 

[Dav4]

Re-potted today into a first generation Yamaaki nanban. The tree is still relatively new to the A:L soil and the pancake root base isn't quite solid enough to entirely support the trunk, so an additional wire was run on the outside of the pot and over a dead root on the back of the tree. Hopefully, that wire will come off by late summer.

 

[Don Blackmond]

Nice tree. I'd consider a larger pot.

 

[Dav4]

Nice tree. I'd consider a larger pot.

I agree, slightly larger would have been better, but the current pot is better then the previous one.

 

[Dav4]

I debated giving this one a year off from the decandling due to my re-pot, but it has grown well, so … One step backward