JBP Newbie Project

[LuZiKui]

Just ordered and received some JBP seedlings from Bonsaify. Ordered a pack of 5 and Eric threw in an extra little guy so I’ll be starting with six.

I’ll be using this to track my progress as I try a few different styles. I planted them in bonsai soil mix from my local bonsai nursery (House of Bonsai). Here’s what I’m planning for them:

#1 & #2 - For these 2 I’m planning on doing an exposed root style. I filled the pond baskets with bonsai soil, then used larger lava rock in the upper container (bottoms cut off). I used a mix of 1/4”-1” lava pieces. The top 2 inches of the upper container has regular bonsai soil. I’m basically copying the bonsaify exposed root vids.

3, 4 & 5 - I plugged all of these into a big pond basket. I probably should have given each their own basket but I figure I can do that next year if they need it. 3 & 4 we’re both pretty vigorous, but 5 is just a little guy. Interested to see what happens, I feel like the little one will end up being the most interesting for some reason.

6- I put this one in a small training container for now. I think I might try to do a root over rock but I didn’t have any tall skinny containers to put it in.

I’ve got them in an area that gets 3-4 hours of sun, figure I’ll leave them there for a week or 2 then move them to the area that gets more sun. Also planning to start with bio gold fert in about 2 weeks.

I’m very new to this and probably should have played it safe and done them all the same BUT I figured while I’m learning maybe I can make some cool stuff along the way. Any feedback/tips greatly appreciated.

 

[Thomas J.]

Now that you have them bent to style and know where you want to go with them, put all of them in those pond baskets and come back in about 4yrs, then you'll be ready to do some cutting back and start your second phase of styling. This is what you should have in about 4yrs time.
You'll have some nice hardy trunks and your first styling should show the results of your preplanning and whether or not you did what you had planned.
During those 4yrs time fertilize the heck out of them and you should be able to get some good size trunks in the time as shown below.

 

[LuZiKui]

Now that you have them bent to style and know where you want to go with them, put all of them in those pond baskets and come back in about 4yrs, then you'll be ready to do some cutting back and start your second phase of styling. This is what you should have in about 4yrs time.
You'll have some nice hardy trunks and your first styling should show the results of your preplanning and whether or not you did what you had planned.
During those 4yrs time fertilize the heck out of them and you should be able to get some good size trunks in the time as shown below.

View attachment 421290

View attachment 421307

Dang I sure hope I have some trees that looks like that! So I really don’t need to worry about any de-candling or candle pruning for these first few years right? Just let them grow like you said? Do you wire the lower branches in these first couple years or just let them run too?

 

[Thomas J.]

Absolutely no candle pruning until final styling which will be around 5-6yrs plus from now. Yeah give em a couple years to see how they're coming along and you can then decide for wiring. Keep up with your fertilizing during the growing season , about once every 5 days and you should have no problem getting some nice trunks and nebari.

 

[LuZiKui]

Absolutely no candle pruning until final styling which will be around 5-6yrs plus from now. Yeah give em a couple years to see how they're coming along and you can then decide for wiring. Keep up with your fertilizing during the growing season , about once every 5 days and you should have no problem getting some nice trunks and nebari.

Thanks for all the info. I've got a bag of biogold that I need to use so I'll probably keep 3-4 nuggets on each plant. Should I also add a liquid fert on top of that?

I've read probably 20 different threads on fertilizer (here and other places), and the only thing I've been able to gather is that everyone is very opinionated on what's best. Do you have a good starting point that works well for you? Can I just use some miracle-gro I have sitting around?

 

[Thomas J.]

Can I just use some miracle-gro I have sitting around?

That's exactly what I was using for those trees you see above, 20-20-20 Miracle Gro, I tbs per gal water around every 5 days.

 

[Firstflush]

Yes m. grow will work. Usually the NPK numbers are really high. Personally, I dilute down to about 5-5-5 NPK.

 

[MaciekA]

Thanks for all the info. I've got a bag of biogold that I need to use so I'll probably keep 3-4 nuggets on each plant. Should I also add a liquid fert on top of that?

I've read probably 20 different threads on fertilizer (here and other places), and the only thing I've been able to gather is that everyone is very opinionated on what's best. Do you have a good starting point that works well for you? Can I just use some miracle-gro I have sitting around?

I've been feeding JBP seedlings osmocote 14:14:14 packed into tea bags and they seem to love this as well, and I wouldn't hestitate to try miracle gro either. Personally, I suspect you can't go wrong as long as drainage is very very good (no soggy retentive stuff, good air flow, etc).

Note that there is a difference between what you can feed young JBP in grow-focused containers vs. super-ramified / elderly / slowed down JBPs in very shallow pots. I think this is where the "difference gradient" in opinions gets steep. For the next 5 to 10 years, ignore those crazy debates, don't bother with expensive fancy stuff. Focus on keeping drainage super high and doing seasonal top soil cleaning / vaccuming. That will have a much bigger impact on your JBPs than the question of which brand / type of fertilizer. Fertilizer helps, but problems with fertilizer are 10,000X more likely if your horticulture (top soil cleanliness, drainage, particle size consistency, air flow, watering practices, sun exposure, container shape/type and even flex) isn't on point. Keep it on point.

Also, pay careful attention to @Thomas J. 's pictures and note the container stacking he's doing. That keeps the root growth party going and is wildly effective for JBP in my experience. Go google Kazuo Onuma's growing methods on the bonsai tonight blog (at least 2 articles cover him on there) for more info on that sort of thing.

In SoCal there's a small chance you're going to come back in a couple years and be asking everyone how to actually slow these things down. I suspect they will do very well for you down there.

 

[LuZiKui]

I've been feeding JBP seedlings osmocote 14:14:14 packed into tea bags and they seem to love this as well, and I wouldn't hestitate to try miracle gro either. Personally, I suspect you can't go wrong as long as drainage is very very good (no soggy retentive stuff, good air flow, etc).

Note that there is a difference between what you can feed young JBP in grow-focused containers vs. super-ramified / elderly / slowed down JBPs in very shallow pots. I think this is where the "difference gradient" in opinions gets steep. For the next 5 to 10 years, ignore those crazy debates, don't bother with expensive fancy stuff. Focus on keeping drainage super high and doing seasonal top soil cleaning / vaccuming. That will have a much bigger impact on your JBPs than the question of which brand / type of fertilizer. Fertilizer helps, but problems with fertilizer are 10,000X more likely if your horticulture (top soil cleanliness, drainage, particle size consistency, air flow, watering practices, sun exposure, container shape/type and even flex) isn't on point. Keep it on point.

Also, pay careful attention to @Thomas J. 's pictures and note the container stacking he's doing. That keeps the root growth party going and is wildly effective for JBP in my experience. Go google Kazuo Onuma's growing methods on the bonsai tonight blog (at least 2 articles cover him on there) for more info on that sort of thing.

In SoCal there's a small chance you're going to come back in a couple years and be asking everyone how to actually slow these things down. I suspect they will do very well for you down there.

Thank you so much for the additional info. I'll keep up with my watering/fertilizing and try to keep the things I can control on point! I'll also check out the articles on bonsai tonight (I really like Jonas' videos as well).

Also, huge thanks for what you do over on Reddit in r/bonsai. Your answers are always super helpful and you're very patient which is big for growing (no pun intended) the art form to a wider audience. Thank you!

 

[Firstflush]

LuZ, I’m in OC too. JPB grow like weeds here. Keep your eyes peeled cruising around neighborhoods. You will see some beautiful yard trees.

 

[memehongkong]

Hi LuZ & Firstflush,

I'm in LA County and want to jump onto this thread. Bought this Japanese Black pine (the bigger one in the picture) at San Gabriel Nursery for $50 today, in a 3 gallon container. The tag says ABC nursery in Gardena (wholesale only grower). It looks to me it was field grown and was put into the container recently, the root are very deep,

Should I re-post this pine in a couple of month in a small shallow pot with good drainage?

 

[Firstflush]

It is early. No need for a bonsai pot yet. That would restrict growth on such a young tree. Either put it in a large pot with good free draining soil or the ground with good rich soil for a few years.

 

[memehongkong]

It is early. No need for a bonsai pot yet. That would restrict growth on such a young tree. Either put it in a large pot with good free draining soil or the ground with good rich soil for a few years.

So I should plant the small seedlings in the ground? It is all sand insider of the 3 gallon pot, I will let it sit for a couple of weeks and put some better soil in it.

 

[Firstflush]

You will experience good fast healthy growth in the ground, yes. Mix compost and cactus mix with your native soil and plant in full sun.

 

[memehongkong]

You will experience good fast healthy growth in the ground, yes. Mix compost and cactus mix with your native soil and plant in full sun.

Thanks. I live East of LA near the Inland Empire. A few weeks during summer the heat will go above 100. Will they be okay in full sun? (I'll make sure they are well water during the heat)

 

[LuZiKui]

Thanks. I live East of LA near the Inland Empire. A few weeks during summer the heat will go above 100. Will they be okay in full sun? (I'll make sure they are well water during the heat)

They shouldn't have an issue with the heat as long as you keep them watered. As far as I know (someone can correct me) when the trees get too hot they'll basically temporarily shutdown the growing process, but it doesn't kill them. Check out this guy, I think he's in West Covina and probably has some of the nicest JBP in the country. I think there are shots of his trees that are in training and they sit out in the middle of his yard, full sun.

My Shohin Collection ....

Just wanted to share pictures of my Shohin collection !!!

www.bonsainut.com

 

[LuZiKui]

Quick update on my little JBP project. Started with Biogold nuggets on the surface 2 weeks after planting. I think this weekend I’m going to hit them with some miracle gro as well. Crazy how fast these little things grow, you can almost see the changes daily!

My 2 exposed root trees are growing like crazy. Long candles and looks like they’ll be popping out new needles soon. Also starting to get a little thicker in the trunk and tons of buds all along the tree.

The 3 in the basket are doing OK. One is real strong, one is medium, and the little runt really hasn’t changed much. I think the candle might be elongating a little bit but It’s not curving up at all like the other ones. I’ll keep an eye on it and fingers crossed.

#6 looks OK, but also not really any elongation. I was worried about it staying too wet so I made some more holes in the pot to aid in drainage. It’s got some buds growing on it so I think it’s OK, hoping it takes off in the next couple weeks. It does look like the needles have just a little bit of yellowing on the tips.

 

[LuZiKui]

Everyone seems to be enjoying the sun and the warmer temps. In addition to the biogold pellets I'm supplementing with miraclegro every 7-10 days.

The 2 exposed root ones are going well. The wire was just starting to bite in so I removed it. Nice looking candles with all of the new needles starting to pop out. Also, plenty of buds down low for future use.

My basket of 3 is doing well. 1 is really blowing up, 1 is progressing but still on the small side, then I have my runt. The candle finally started pointing up and elongating a bit so I'm hoping it will continue to develop. Probably should have planted these all separate but oh well. I was running low on bonsai soil and I think they should be fine for a season together.

My last one hasn't changed much. The candle is turning up just a bit but not much growth. The trunk does seem to be getting thicker but other than that not much change.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Hi LuZ & Firstflush,

I'm in LA County and want to jump onto this thread. Bought this Japanese Black pine (the bigger one in the picture) at San Gabriel Nursery for $50 today, in a 3 gallon container. The tag says ABC nursery in Gardena (wholesale only grower). It looks to me it was field grown and was put into the container recently, the root are very deep,

Should I re-post this pine in a couple of month in a small shallow pot with good drainage?View attachment 422050

If must repot this year then do NOW. Tree is growing and later is not better. At $50 you were ripped off . If a standard ungrafted JBP this is maybe $15-20 tree.

 

[LuZiKui]

Little end of season update on my JBPs. I'm down to 3 from the original six. I had one in a smaller container that didn't drain well, I think it succumbed to some sort of root issue. I dropped my pond basket that had 3 in it and 2 of them died (LOL, lesson learned, don't drop your plants).

The 3 remaining all look pretty good. Of course I wish they would have grown more but oh well. They all have decent buds and some nice options lower on the trees. My question to the forum is whether I should cut some of the buds that are forming on the top? I have the main bud with 4-5 around it, should I reduce that to only 2? If so, should I cut it or pinch/twist them off?