JBP Newbie Project

MaciekA

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Keep the early-forming buds for now.

Allow them to grow out as shoots in spring, let them blast out as shoots, then review what you want to do with them any time after summer solstice. You could vary your strategy between different individuals to see what the response is. Way up in the sacrificial tips, I have found that there's a wide range of preserved leaf mass that is acceptable to the tree before it starts to really lose strength in the lower buds. And keep in mind you have several seasons before the begins to close/narrow on budding likelihood at the base, especially if you have set bends very low into the trunks (shohin-style) as you have here. In my experience, that future-shohin region remains bud-productive even if you have a ton of needle mass way up above so long as 1) it's way up above and 2) not shading that future-shohin area.

The longer you keep those blasted out shoots past solstice, the more sugars they'll contribute back to the rest of the tree, including the tiny bits at the base (+roots), and this can be worth it when you're at this early stage and building lower caliper, and when you haven't really lost any ability to bud at the base.

Any time between July and December, you could reduce the sacrificial top down to 1 or 2 leading shoot(s). Some growers solo that all down to one "super shoot", in some cases selecting the one in the very center (for various reasons. Personally, when I've tried the solo-sacrificial-super-shoot strategy, I've selected the central one so that I can sit JBPs next to one another and keep a slim/narrow footprint -- short on space!).

Other growers keep one or two and maybe even allow some sub-branching to occur up there. At Hagedorn's garden, I've chopped away some sacrificial tops, with sub-branching, whose needle mass would easily be more than the needle mass of all the seedlings in your pictures above combined. Again, the pattern seems to be that you can have a lotta sacrificial growth as long as it's way up there and not shading out anything below.

edit: Here's a picture I took back on May 26th of some chopped off sacrificial tops of JBPs at Hagedorn's: These are pretty massive. Keep this in mind when you're feeling an urgency to inhibit apical dominance.

Most growers later "poodle" (needle strip) the entire sacrificial line all the way from the lowest keep-growth right up to the neck of the sacrificial tips, but some leave a generous amount of needles at the neck. The timing of the poodling of the sacrificial and the degree of poodling seems all over the map between different growers. For the ones growing 100s of JBPs, I think timing is more of a matter of when the grower can make the time to do it than precise sugar deprivation engineering. Since my JBP count is only in the dozens, I go case-by-case and try to hold onto those needles & top-sacrificials until I see signs that the future-shohin area is sputtering under the influence of apical dominance. Then I reduce and/or poodle as necessary.

I haven't yet met or seen any JBP growers who pluck these buds prior to becoming shoots -- I'm tempted by the idea that it would help create a singular super-shoot quicker than normal (since you're not diluting growth at the sacrificial top as much), but on the other hand, my desire for needle mass up there is more urgent than having a clean singular shoot. Check out Ryuchi Kitadani's youtube channel for an example of the "singular central super shoot" strategy.
 
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LuZiKui

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Keep the early-forming buds for now.

Allow them to grow out as shoots in spring, let them blast out as shoots, then review what you want to do with them any time after summer solstice. You could vary your strategy between different individuals to see what the response is. Way up in the sacrificial tips, I have found that there's a wide range of preserved leaf mass that is acceptable to the tree before it starts to really lose strength in the lower buds. And keep in mind you have several seasons before the begins to close/narrow on budding likelihood at the base, especially if you have set bends very low into the trunks (shohin-style) as you have here. In my experience, that future-shohin region remains bud-productive even if you have a ton of needle mass way up above so long as 1) it's way up above and 2) not shading that future-shohin area.

The longer you keep those blasted out shoots past solstice, the more sugars they'll contribute back to the rest of the tree, including the tiny bits at the base (+roots), and this can be worth it when you're at this early stage and building lower caliper, and when you haven't really lost any ability to bud at the base.

Any time between July and December, you could reduce the sacrificial top down to 1 or 2 leading shoot(s). Some growers solo that all down to one "super shoot", in some cases selecting the one in the very center (for various reasons. Personally, when I've tried the solo-sacrificial-super-shoot strategy, I've selected the central one so that I can sit JBPs next to one another and keep a slim/narrow footprint -- short on space!).

Other growers keep one or two and maybe even allow some sub-branching to occur up there. At Hagedorn's garden, I've chopped away some sacrificial tops, with sub-branching, whose needle mass would easily be more than the needle mass of all the seedlings in your pictures above combined. Again, the pattern seems to be that you can have a lotta sacrificial growth as long as it's way up there and not shading out anything below.

edit: Here's a picture I took back on May 26th of some chopped off sacrificial tops of JBPs at Hagedorn's: These are pretty massive. Keep this in mind when you're feeling an urgency to inhibit apical dominance.

Most growers later "poodle" (needle strip) the entire sacrificial line all the way from the lowest keep-growth right up to the neck of the sacrificial tips, but some leave a generous amount of needles at the neck. The timing of the poodling of the sacrificial and the degree of poodling seems all over the map between different growers. For the ones growing 100s of JBPs, I think timing is more of a matter of when the grower can make the time to do it than precise sugar deprivation engineering. Since my JBP count is only in the dozens, I go case-by-case and try to hold onto those needles & top-sacrificials until I see signs that the future-shohin area is sputtering under the influence of apical dominance. Then I reduce and/or poodle as necessary.

I haven't yet met or seen any JBP growers who pluck these buds prior to becoming shoots -- I'm tempted by the idea that it would help create a singular super-shoot quicker than normal (since you're not diluting growth at the sacrificial top as much), but on the other hand, my desire for needle mass up there is more urgent than having a clean singular shoot. Check out Ryuchi Kitadani's youtube channel for an example of the "singular central super shoot" strategy.
As always thanks a ton for the info, I really appreciate. I'll definitely be coming back to read this again as my JBPs grow. I'll leave these as-is for now and let them do their thing next year. As a beginner I always want to be doing something to my trees even if they don't need it. I figured it's probably best to just give them time so it's good to get that feedback. Thanks again!
 

LuZiKui

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Can anyone comment on the browning that I'm seeing on my JBP, should I be worried? This is the one that grew the strongest over the last year but I started to notice some browning on the needles in the last month. Is this something I need to be worried about? I try to be diligent about my watering (not too much, not too little). Also, I did apply a little bit of osmocote to the surface. I understand this is probably not the best to do in winter but temps are so mild here I figured the tree wouldn't truly go dormant like colder climes. If anyone has any feedback I'd appreciate it!
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eugenev2

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Can anyone comment on the browning that I'm seeing on my JBP, should I be worried? This is the one that grew the strongest over the last year but I started to notice some browning on the needles in the last month. Is this something I need to be worried about? I try to be diligent about my watering (not too much, not too little). Also, I did apply a little bit of osmocote to the surface. I understand this is probably not the best to do in winter but temps are so mild here I figured the tree wouldn't truly go dormant like colder climes. If anyone has any feedback I'd appreciate it!
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I hoped the experienced pine guys would have weighed in by now, but they must have missed this post. So hopefully this bumps it to the top again.

There is this link for a trouble shooting guide...but i struggled with some of the hand writing

From my limited knowledge it doesn't look like the just the old needles are turning brown but a combination, so possibly some sort of fungal issue
But lets hope some like @Shibui comments :)
 

Shibui

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I can't see anything to be too concerned about. The few brown needles are probably due to getting a bit dry at some stage but plenty of healthy ones so no long term problem.

Also, I did apply a little bit of osmocote to the surface. I understand this is probably not the best to do in winter but temps are so mild here I figured the tree wouldn't truly go dormant like colder climes.
I've found that JBP respond very well to winter fertilizer in our mild climate so I expect your trees will too. Pines never go completely dormant in mild areas and definitely do better with winter feed. For developing pines I use liquid fert around once a month through winter then increase to every 2 weeks when growth starts in spring for faster growth. They also have controlled release fert in the soil mix and occasional organic pellets on the surface.
Dig small holes to get your Osmocote under the surface where it can react with soil moisture for better release profile.

Also curious. Instinct says related to no proper Winter dormancy🤔🤨? ( OR Summer heat)
JBP do not appear to need 'proper' winter dormancy. They grow very well down here where winter overnight temps are somewhere around freezing for a couple of weeks. Summer heat, on the other hand, is related to drying out which is my guess - see above.
 

LuZiKui

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I can't see anything to be too concerned about. The few brown needles are probably due to getting a bit dry at some stage but plenty of healthy ones so no long term problem.


I've found that JBP respond very well to winter fertilizer in our mild climate so I expect your trees will too. Pines never go completely dormant in mild areas and definitely do better with winter feed. For developing pines I use liquid fert around once a month through winter then increase to every 2 weeks when growth starts in spring for faster growth. They also have controlled release fert in the soil mix and occasional organic pellets on the surface.
Dig small holes to get your Osmocote under the surface where it can react with soil moisture for better release profile.


JBP do not appear to need 'proper' winter dormancy. They grow very well down here where winter overnight temps are somewhere around freezing for a couple of weeks. Summer heat, on the other hand, is related to drying out which is my guess - see above.
Awesome thank you very much for your info on this. I didn't think it was too critical but it's always nice to have a second opinion. I'll try to stay diligent about my watering and keep an eye on it in case it continues to brown.

You gave me some good info on collecting olives as well so thanks again for all your help :)
 

LuZiKui

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Started removing some soil from the top on my most vigorous exposed root tree. Might give it a month or so and remove some more soil l so I can see what’s going on with the roots. Looks good so far
 

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LuZiKui

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Earlier this season I put the 3 remaining trees in a second basket to give them a bit more room for the roots to stretch out. Removed some additional soil on my 2 exposed root trees. First one looks good, eventually I'll remove the root coming straight at the camera but I'll leave it for now. The rest of the roots look pretty good from what I can tell so far:

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Now the other tree... I started removing some top soil and BAM! Hit a huge root that's coming out perpendicular to the trunk. It must have hit a rock and took a beeline. Is this something that I should cut out ASAP since it's not likely to be part of the final design? I know it's not the right time, maybe winter/early spring?

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LuZiKui

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Also, my bonsai club is hosting Jonas Dupuich for a pine workshop in early December. I'm really looking forward to meeting him and I'll be bringing these 3 trees to work on so that might be a good time to do some of this work.
 

Ryceman3

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The ideal time to remove that root is obviously when you do usual root work on your pines (late winter as you say) but I wouldn’t be too concerned about doing it now if you’re not planning on doing further root work then. There looks to be plenty of other roots to take it’s place and your tree is nice and healthy, I doubt it will impact its development for long (if at all) by taking it off.
 

LuZiKui

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I was checking on my trees earlier and noticed some white fuzziness around one of the candles on a side branch. My alarm bells went off because I have an apple tree in my backyard that is absolutely covered in woolly aphids. Looks like they’ve popped up in this tree and are starting to spread. I was going to try some of the milder solutions to address them before getting a heavy duty pesticide.

Do I need to be concerned about the roots on this plant now? I wasn’t planning on bare rooting this since I’m going for exposed root but don’t want to jeopardize the health of the tree if it might be something more serious.
 

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LuZiKui

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Little spring update, actually surprised how much they grew over the winter (which was pretty mild around here).

Repotted this one, it was off center in the basket and it seems to be doing well. Some kinda nasty roots I’ll have to deal with at some point

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These are my 2 exposed root trees. I was gonna chop one of the large roots growing out but decided to leave it and as it thickens it is looking a little better. Candles are starting to take off so I think I’ll get some really good growth this year from both.
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