This statement looks very much like misunderstood biology. Characteristics of any living being are the result of an interaction between its genotype and the environment. Thus changing the environment *may* well change the characteristics in a way, but there is absolutely no certitude that it will. As for JBP, if you have JBP with genetically determined shorter needles in Japan, chances are that even grown elsewhere, they will still exhibit shorter needles than JBP without this particular genetic trait.
The main problem here is how genetically stable are Mikawa JBP pines.
If we are comparing specific varieties of the same species within an identical environment you are correct. But Al, if I understand correctly, is referring to a specific genotype's response to differing environments. Temperature, humidity, soil, fertilizer, pot size, water (quality and quantity), and technique will all play a role in plant response. My understanding of Al's point is that his experience with Mikawa JBP grown in an environment outside of Mikawa will result in a different looking pine.
Needle length in particular is extraordinarily variable in JBP, even within the same genotype in different environments, especially when decandling is involved, in which temperature and timing play vital roles.
What I am saying is that given enough time, a plant indeginous to a specific area that has attributes favorable to that area will exhibit new charicteristics of its new surrounding over time.
William N. Valavanis:Mikawa Japanese black pine is not a dwarf or yastsubusa variant of the common Japanese black pine.
ANY Japanese black pine originating from Aichii Prefecture is considered to be a Mikawa Japanese black pine.
Usually Mikawa Japanese black pine have a brighter green needle color, sometimes shorter needles and often a rough bark. But, these are seedlings and can vary considerably.
If you ask growers on Shikoku Island they will tell you that the Shikoku Japanese black pine are superior. Growers in Aichii Prefecture will tell you Mikawa is better.
99% of the people cannot tell the difference between Mikawa and Shikoku Japanese black pine. And, 99% of the people cannot distinguish a well grown and trained Mikawa, Shikoku or common Japanese black pine from each other.
Pines with straight needles are more highly prized and should be used for bonsai than those with shorter twisted needles. It's easy to develop short needles, but impossible to straighten twisted needles.
Sometimes, the training techniques are more important than the origin of a certain species.
Smoke,
You got me on that one. I had forgotten about William's reply on Bonsaistudygroup. William is right in the sense that JBP with shorter needles can be produced anywhere depending on cultivation techniques. However, my intention was NOT to state that Mikawa Black Pines actually are a specific variety of JBP. I stand by what I said in that the JBP in the Mikawa area MAY have cross-pollenated with seedlings that happen to have qualities desired in bonsai, making that particular short-needle trait more common amongst seedlings in that area. My Mikawa JBP seedling does have noticeably shorter needles on it's sacrifice branches than other JBPs I've observed in local parks. But they still have to be reduced more in proportion to the tree.
Perhaps an even better example is my JWPs. I have 2 JWP 7y/o seedlings I purchased from Julian Adams (sprouted in the US , but from seeds collected around Mt Ishizuchi in Shikoku) that have remarkably shorter needles than the JWP seedling I purchased here. Their needles are at least 60% shorter, and the color is a silver-blueish-green, where as the 12y/o seedling I purchased here is mainly a pale yellowish green.
In the end it all has to do with the traits of the parents.
Smoke,
In the end it all has to do with the traits of the parents.
Brian Van Fleet, you sound pretty sure of yourself. You are wrong.
Ouch...surely I can't be more than 1/2 wrong...#4 screams Muranaka = Mikawa. Either that or maybe you need to check your stance when watering...you watering left-handed? Holding your mouth right?
As for long needles...Are you candle-cutting too early? Don't give them more than 100 days to regrow. Here, it's July 4, for you it's probably a few weeks later...?
BTW, I can get three bursts of buds on a pine here where I live.
Ok...half right. But the question was pick the "two" mikawas. You only picked one so you were wrong. But since you read here often and since I have posted that tree more than twice, you would have to get it right.
Finally, someone has answered the mystery question with the answer and probably didn't even know it. JPB is so versatile to technique that even a bind caveman can make short needles on a pine by stressing the piss out of it.
You are trying to teach an ole dog a new trick by throwing dates to candle prune a pine to grow short needles while I am saying just let the plant grow as nature intended (apples and apples) for the sake of technique or the lack thereof for the sake of this thread, and compare them needle for needle. Store bought, grown in New York City pine in a one gallon container from some big box store nursery and that of a Mikawa black pine in a one gallon container. Grow the two in the same atmospheric conditions for three years a piece and show me what you get. I'll bet the two will be indistinguishable.
Yet I bet there may be some that can make the plain ole JBP look like a Mikawa while the real Mikawa looks crappy.
BTW, I can get three bursts of buds on a pine here where I live.