JBP Roots

[Gr8tfuldad]

So it is said that you should not bare root JBP. If JBP are field grown, how do they get it into 100% bonsai soil. Eventually the pine bark or peat ( potted versions) is going to break down into a mucky mess, how do you get all the old soil out without bare rooting the tree at some point? Thank you.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

Bare rooted and its not a field tree xD

 

[Dav4]

I've personally bare rooted younger trees... less then 4-5 years old. For older field grown trees, I plan on collecting a large root ball, removing larger roots and retaining those with smaller roots closer to the trunk. I'll be retaining a fair amount of the field soil but will be filling the first pot with an aggregate soil heavy in pumice and lava. Once the tree has recovered from collection... 2-3 years after collection... I'll re-pot, working the roots to begin the transition from field grown tree to bonsai, and in the process will remove probably 50% + of the remaining field soil and replacing that with good bonsai soil. If health is good, I'll remove the rest of the field soil at the next re-pot in 2-3 years.

 

[Gary McCarthy]

Generally the removal of the field soil is done over 2 or 3 repots. First repot you remove the field soil from the outer root mass, leaving the field soil under the base of the tree mostly untouched. Next repot you’re removing the field soil from under the base and leaving the soil around the outer root mass mostly untouched.

 

[just.wing.it]

So it is said that you should not bare root JBP. If JBP are field grown, how do they get it into 100% bonsai soil. Eventually the pine bark or peat ( potted versions) is going to break down into a mucky mess, how do you get all the old soil out without bare rooting the tree at some point? Thank you.

Half Bare Root job.
I HBR'd mine this spring, plan on doing the other half this coming spring.
It didn't skip a beat so far.

 

[SeanS]

I bare rooted some young JBPs (all between 2 and 5 years) this spring and they haven’t skipped a beat. Candles over 10” long and roots out the bottom of their colanders. Obviously not field grown as you’re asking about but young trees seem to be fine.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I bare-rooted and washed a field-grown JBP in December. Didn’t miss a best, although I did lug it inside anytime it was forecast to freeze during that winter. Fortunately it was only 5 feet tall and in a 24” wide pot.. I still haven’t styled it, but it is alive and well 3 years later.

 

[Alain BERTRAND]

I always bare-root my pines when repotting.

Small one

big one :

 

[just.wing.it]

That is not bare rooted....that's just the edges raked out.

 

[Hbhaska]

I always bare-root my pines when repotting.

Small one
View attachment 409987
big one :

View attachment 409988

That doesn’t look like it’s bare-rooted. For me, working with chopsticks and then rinsing off the remnant soil completely is considered bare-rooting. Nice fine roots, you have!

 

[Alain BERTRAND]

The first one is really bare-rooted : it has no more substrate between the fine roots.
I stand corrected for the second one.
Are these two ones more to your liking ?

 

[parhamr]

This is a Scots Pine, but the technique is the same for a half bare root. It was nursery stock, grown in the Willamette Valle, which means almost pure clay soil.

2017




2020

 

[Gr8tfuldad]

Thank you everyone for clarifying!

 

[bwaynef]

If I had my "druthers", I'd do a couple HBR repots. That said, I did a ~95% bare root repot this spring on a 'Bansho sho' JBP and it didn't really miss a beat. It actually perked up a bit. (It'd been in HEAVY clay/muck so I think its health was about to decline.) Its in AkaPumiLa now, and has roots all along the bottom of the Anderson flat. Since it was so severely repotted last spring, I think I'm going to wait to repot it 'til spring of '23.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

This is a Scots Pine, but the technique is the same for a half bare root. It was nursery stock, grown in the Willamette Valle, which means almost pure clay soil.

2017
View attachment 409992
View attachment 409991
View attachment 409993

2020
View attachment 409995

View attachment 409994

What a beast, how much for it?

 

[Shibui]

, I'd do a couple HBR repots. That said, I did a ~95% bare root repot this spring on a 'Bansho sho' JBP and it didn't really miss a beat. It actually perked up a bit. (It'd been in HEAVY clay/muck so I think its health was about to decline.)

This says it all. Most people do HBR because they are told it is safe. The reality seems to be that bare root (or close to - as pointed out earlier) works perfectly well and may even be better in many cases. I'd bet that many of those championing HBR as the only way to go with pines have never even tried bare root. Personally I lift pines from the grow beds each winter and get rid of as much field soil as possible without washing the roots and still have close to 100% survival. Most of those trees are older than 5 years.
Half bare root will allow old soil to be removed over a 2 year cycle. It may be safe but whether it is the only option is debatable.

 

[Gr8tfuldad]

This says it all. Most people do HBR because they are told it is safe. The reality seems to be that bare root (or close to - as pointed out earlier) works perfectly well and may even be better in many cases. I'd bet that many of those championing HBR as the only way to go with pines have never even tried bare root. Personally I lift pines from the grow beds each winter and get rid of as much field soil as possible without washing the roots and still have close to 100% survival. Most of those trees are older than 5 years.
Half bare root will allow old soil to be removed over a 2 year cycle. It may be safe but whether it is the only option is debatable.

It amazes me how many myths are used as fact, perhaps we have discovered one more in this thread.

 

[parhamr]

What a beast, how much for it?

$109.95 — no tax. I’ve been tempted to get another. The nursery has at leaf a dozen remaining.

 

[parhamr]

This says it all. Most people do HBR because they are told it is safe. The reality seems to be that bare root (or close to - as pointed out earlier) works perfectly well and may even be better in many cases. I'd bet that many of those championing HBR as the only way to go with pines have never even tried bare root. Personally I lift pines from the grow beds each winter and get rid of as much field soil as possible without washing the roots and still have close to 100% survival. Most of those trees are older than 5 years.
Half bare root will allow old soil to be removed over a 2 year cycle. It may be safe but whether it is the only option is debatable.

I’m noticing that you have a “humid subtropical climate,” which is ideal for the JBP. I’m wondering if that bolsters your successes, in addition to good technique and timing.

When do you time this work?

 

[bwaynef]

This says it all. Most people do HBR because they are told it is safe. The reality seems to be that bare root (or close to - as pointed out earlier) works perfectly well and may even be better in many cases. I'd bet that many of those championing HBR as the only way to go with pines have never even tried bare root. Personally I lift pines from the grow beds each winter and get rid of as much field soil as possible without washing the roots and still have close to 100% survival. Most of those trees are older than 5 years.
Half bare root will allow old soil to be removed over a 2 year cycle. It may be safe but whether it is the only option is debatable.

<emphasis mine>

I've barerooted young pines, but when it comes to material that's more developed and I'm more "invested" in, I go with the advice of people I trust. I never said (nor do I think anyone on this thread ...or site has) that the HBR is the only way. Mirai advocates a different method for instance, though he's still not advocating barerooting.

Since you bring it up, do you have any ideas as to why there seems to be near-consensus from professionals (...and high-level practitioners) that its not safe to bareroot pines? For that matter, do you know any professionals that teach barerooting pines?