JBP vs JWP?

[bobbywett]

Hello Folks,

I've recently been considering getting either a JBP or a JWP bonsai. I noticed that the JBP (my preference) seem to be more expensive. What are the differences between these two species as far as care, train-ability, climate requirements and the like. Are there different sub-species more suited for bonsai?

Thanks for any advise,

Bobby

 

[Wilson]

There are many options to choose from. If you are in PA, then you can have both! I am sure lots of folks here from the US can recommend all types of suppliers.

 

[chansen]

I'd imagine the price differences you see in JBP vs JWP has more to do with the quality, rather than the species. Finding a good JWP is really hard; there just aren't as many out there right now vs JBP. The reason - JBP develop faster than JWP. JWP will only give one (reliable) flush of growth a year, where JBP will give you two. JBP will also backbud more easily than JWP. Since they develop faster, there are more of them available so you'll see more nice JBP than JWP on the market.

As far as care, the aforementioned growth habits dictate the work to be done. JWP have been called the lazy-man's pine. You just don't do as much to them in a year.

If I were you, I'd focus less on species at this point and find the highest quality JBP/JWP you can afford. You can learn lots from either species.

 

[Sansui]

You may find the American Conifer Society website database helpful as you come across different cultivars of many species of trees, including JBP and JWP.

 

[vancehanna]

I've been growing both for nearly 48 yrs and find that Chris is on the money.

 

[bobbywett]

I'd imagine the price differences you see in JBP vs JWP has more to do with the quality, rather than the species. Finding a good JWP is really hard; there just aren't as many out there right now vs JBP. The reason - JBP develop faster than JWP. JWP will only give one (reliable) flush of growth a year, where JBP will give you two. JBP will also backbud more easily than JWP. Since they develop faster, there are more of them available so you'll see more nice JBP than JWP on the market.

As far as care, the aforementioned growth habits dictate the work to be done. JWP have been called the lazy-man's pine. You just don't do as much to them in a year.

If I were you, I'd focus less on species at this point and find the highest quality JBP/JWP you can afford. You can learn lots from either species.

Thank you for the in depth information. I'm gonna do a lot more research before I pull the trigger.

 

[bobbywett]

You may find the American Conifer Society website database helpful as you come across different cultivars of many species of trees, including JBP and JWP.

Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Adair M]

Most JBP bonsai started as seeds, but most JWP bonsai are grafts. That’s because JWP seedlings usually have poor foliage. Those beautiful tight tufts of foliage we associate with JWP come from only a few cultivars, which are propagated via grafting. There are two JWP cultivars that can be propagated via layers or cuttings. But that’s a lot more difficult than growing from seed.

Therefore, in the US, you will find far more JBP than JWP available for bonsai.

That said, it does take some skill to get a JBP seedling started off correctly. Please see Eric Schreader’s thread “A few pine seeds six years later”.

 

[Hack Yeah!]

A few pine seeds, 6 years later.

After reading Smoke's comments about wanting to see a mature tree that had been started from seed I thought I would post a few photos of my progress. Unfortunately, I can't actually supply a tree to satisfy his request but perhaps these progress photos will help a little. My first son was...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Haroldjr]

To me jwp is a lot more finicky. I bought a spec one and have had trouble ever since paid 2300 for it to boot. Just HAD to do it. I have all sorts of job. I can throw them on the walls and floor and the come back for more. Bless their hearts. That jwp will be the death of me yet. Just the way it is I guess.

 

[Forsoothe!]

The reason there are fewer JWP around in the US is they are almost always on JBP rootstock and finding one with a minimum difference in the trunk is difficult at best and impossible if you're really picky. JBP have much rougher bark and you need to find one with a "lucky" graft that joins immediately under the first branch disguising the union from that side and a coincidentally smooth union transistion on the other side so it all looks right from the front. If all that sounds like lining up too many ducks-in-a-row, you understand completely.

 

[Haroldjr]

I haven't been in this a real long time. Enough to find out what NOT to do. For my money the black tolerates me an awful lot better.

 

[Haroldjr]

Plus look what I had to pay to get a decent jwp. Outrageous.

 

[AnacortesSteve]

I have been growing JBP for about 4 years now and have a few hundred, it's amazing the variance between them but yes they like to grow if you feed and water them. Also it gets windy here so that helps build girth.

 

[Potawatomi13]

IF familiar w/keeping pines White pine hands down! Much less hectic, busy to develop. Peaceful beautiful tree to develop. Finer denser needles. Make sure graft is way down at root crown if buying one.

 

[Forsoothe!]

JBP has pads and JWP has clouds. Oregonians have rain.

 

[Haroldjr]

5

The reason there are fewer JWP around in the US is they are almost always on JBP rootstock and finding one with a minimum difference in the trunk is difficult at best and impossible if you're really picky. JBP have much rougher bark and you need to find one with a "lucky" graft that joins immediately under the first branch disguising the union from that side and a coincidentally smooth union transistion on the other side so it all looks right from the front. If all that sounds like lining up too many ducks-in-a-row, you understand completely.

I understand but I appreciate the harshness of the jbp. All I see when I look at my jwp is the question "is it going to die if I breath wrong?" I feel it is that delicate. Maybe it is the pricetagu

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I understand but I appreciate the harshness of the jbp. All I see when I look at my jwp is the question "is it going to die if I breath wrong?" I feel it is that delicate. Maybe it is the pricetagu

It probably depends where you live but in my experience a good JWP is going to cost more than a good JBP for two trees of the same size. And a JWP without an ugly graft on JBP roots... extremely rare and correspondingly pricey.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Most JBP bonsai started as seeds, but most JWP bonsai are grafts. That’s because JWP seedlings usually have poor foliage. Those beautiful tight tufts of foliage we associate with JWP come from only a few cultivars, which are propagated via grafting. There are two JWP cultivars that can be propagated via layers or cuttings. But that’s a lot more difficult than growing from seed.

Therefore, in the US, you will find far more JBP than JWP available for bonsai.

That said, it does take some skill to get a JBP seedling started off correctly. Please see Eric Schreader’s thread “A few pine seeds six years later”.

Wondering if you can elaborate on which to cultivars will take?

I've seen some Japanese growers do layers on JWP but they say it often takes 2-3 growing seasons for the roots to be strong enough for seperation, and you need to start with a strong tree to begin with. I've only seen a handful of cases of people taking cuttings, and most say the success rate is sub 5%.

I'm mostly curious as I'm planning on removing a big branch on one of mine soon, and have been pondering if trying cuttings is even worth my effort.

 

[bwaynef]

Wondering if you can elaborate on which to cultivars will take?

Likely Kokonoe & Zuisho.