JM Multi Trunk Progression

Drew

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An update in this, one year on. Pic taken 4th March 2017:

IMG_7114.jpg

The right branch/trunk had alot of die back on it so when it budded back lower I decided to cut back to those buds:

IMG_7044.jpg IMG_7045.jpg

It was also time to see what was beneath the thick mat of roots! I have been wondering ever since I got this tree what the nebari would be like... time to find out! I only did half the root ball this year, will do the other half next year of the year after:

IMG_7319.jpg IMG_7320.jpg IMG_7321.jpg IMG_7322.jpg IMG_7323.jpg IMG_7324.jpg

And back in the pot:
IMG_7326.jpg

I'm happy with what I found.
 

Drew

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I didn't know what I was going to find and ended up taking alot root out of the side I was working on so didn't want to over do it. Plus I'd already spent 2 hrs clearing it out and my two y.o. son was staring at me through the window so felt I had to finish up for the day.
 

Drew

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So this one has been going well again this year. Its already had a partial defoliation, leaf cut and unwanted branches thinned out a few months ago. The pics below shows its second flush.

My question is, I've had a bud pop in the perfect position for a main branch (bottom left red arrow) but the new canopy is now shading it out. How would you guys go about helping this bud extend? Would you defoliate the left side of the canopy above it until its big enough to grow out from under the canopy?

Front:
IMG_7713.JPG

Side view:
IMG_7714.JPG

Closeup side view
IMG_7715.JPG
 
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Love the trunks!
 

MACH5

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You can do a partial defoliation and then cut the remaining leaves in half. That will give you about 75% more light penetration. Good luck with it and I hope it grows for you. Sometimes these small shoots don't do much specially if you have a large canopy in place. If it fails to grow for you, I would then resort to thread grafting.

It looks like it's growing towards the inside? Don't you want it on the outside?
 

Drew

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Yeah I thought I may have to do another partial defoliation and leaf cut. would you do it again to the whole tree of just the left side?

@MACH5 They are both on the outside of the trunk (must be the camera angle) the last two pics in my previous post were side views shots.

There are actually two buds as that part of the trunk I just need one of them to extend, I've also used a previous post picture to give you a better idea where the buds have popped on the trunk:

IMG_7715.JPG


IMG_7323.jpg
 

Bonsai Nut

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There are actually two buds as that part of the trunk I just need one of them to extend, I've also used a previous post picture to give you a better idea where the buds have popped on the trunk

Hard to tell from the angle of the photos but (to me) that bud seems really low for a main branch. Your composition will be a little taller once you develop your apex, and you want your main branch to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/3rd of the way up the trunk.

You probably already know this, but if you don't increase the height of your composition, you are going to have a problem with the lack of taper in your trunks. The design will look like three logs in a pot instead of three trunks that developed naturally.
 

Drew

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Yeah the angles of the pics arent the best but I had to dig down quite a bit to get to the original nebari so the distance to the new first branch on the left shouldnt be too close to the new soil line:

IMG_7323.jpg
 

MACH5

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You can do partial defoliation over the entire tree to keep energy evenly distributed. In the area above and around the young shoot I would cut the remaining leaves of each in half to ensure extra light and air.
 

Drew

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Another year, another spring flush. The bud has popped its two leaves again but hasn't extended again this year?? I've taken off all of the leaves off around it and i'm thinking of doing a partial or full defoliation on the rest of the tree?? I may also keep clipping back any new growth until this bud starts moving, what do you guys think about a full defoliation of a Japanese maple?

I dont really want to thread graft as the buds in a perfect position but I think it just gets shaded out too quickly from above..

IMG_9125.JPGIMG_9126.JPG
 

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It is auxin not shade, so reducing the apical foliage will help. Shoot tips are the biggest producers of auxin; leaves second. Reduce the number of these up top will reduce the auxin flow down the trunk that is suppressing your two-leaf stalled shoot.

It is clear to me from your pic that you could simply put the photographed 'front' facing south and it would get plenty of sunlight. London is at 51.5N (the tilt of the earth's axis is 23.5 degrees --> the sun is always at a declination of at least 28 degrees).
 

Drew

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Thanks for your replay. That was my thinking, by defoliating and then clipping back or punching the new growing tips the tree would eventually allow this bud to extend.. I'm thinking of a full defoliation of the entire tree to hopefully turbo charge this bud, what do you think? it'll give me a chance to remove wire as well.

It is clear to me from your pic that you could simply put the photographed 'front' facing south and it would get plenty of sunlight. London is at 51.5N (the tilt of the earth's axis is 23.5 degrees --> the sun is always at a declination of at least 28 degrees).
I love this!!! very detailed!
 

BobbyLane

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i agree with the above, that shoot needs to be on the sunny side for a few weeks and the growth above it cut back hard. along with some leaf pruning further up the tree.

i think even with a full defoliation, the branch stems will still play a role in blocking out some light.
 

Drew

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i think even with a full defoliation, the branch stems will still play a role in blocking out some light.
Yeah I may even put a wedge under it and point it up at the sun!
 

BrianBay9

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Just catching up with this discussion. Great work so far, particularly the decision to cut the fourth trunk way back. I don't think it was helping at all as it was.
 

MACH5

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Drew you can try all tricks possible to get that shoot to gain strength and grow, but my sense is that with how much mass there is on the tree and its location I doubt you can really get it going. Perhaps see what happens this year. I probably would be thinking about thread grafting at that same spot with a very vigorous shoot next year.

As far as full defoliation on Japanese maples, you can certainly do it without any detriment to the tree. Just make sure it is in top health otherwise you can severely weaken it. I have been defoliating maples for more than 25 years with no problem. A caviat: red leaf and lace leaf maples as well as some other weaker cultivars should never be defoliated.
 

Drew

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Drew you can try all tricks possible to get that shoot to gain strength and grow, but my sense is that with how much mass there is on the tree and its location I doubt you can really get it going. Perhaps see what happens this year. I probably would be thinking about thread grafting at that same spot with a very vigorous shoot next year.

As far as full defoliation on Japanese maples, you can certainly do it without any detriment to the tree. Just make sure it is in top health otherwise you can severely weaken it. I have been defoliating maples for more than 25 years with no problem. A caviat: red leaf and lace leaf maples as well as some other weaker cultivars should never be defoliated.

Thanks guys I have gone ahead and given it a full defoliation It was growing strong and though why not give it a go... if it dosn't work I'll admit defeat and thread graft a branch there.. cross your fingers for me.
IMG_9140.JPGIMG_9141.JPG

Also @MACH5:
As far as full defoliation on Japanese maples, you can certainly do it without any detriment to the tree. Just make sure it is in top health otherwise you can severely weaken it. I have been defoliating maples for more than 25 years with no problem. A caviat: red leaf and lace leaf maples as well as some other weaker cultivars should never be defoliated.

When you say you defoliate your Japanese Maples are you referring to a full (all leaves) or partial (ie cut one of the pair and maybe the other in half) and when do you do you do it? also how often during the growing season? I have one or two trees now that are just a massive ball of leaves like the one above.
I spent hours doing a partial defoliation (cutting one leaf off and the other in half) on one of them! this tree above took less than half the time so was wondering if you usually just fully defoliate yours? my wife thinks I'm crazy BTW HAHA
 

MACH5

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Also @MACH5:
When you say you defoliate your Japanese Maples are you referring to a full (all leaves) or partial (ie cut one of the pair and maybe the other in half) and when do you do you do it? also how often during the growing season? I have one or two trees now that are just a massive ball of leaves like the one above.
I spent hours doing a partial defoliation (cutting one leaf off and the other in half) on one of them! this tree above took less than half the time so was wondering if you usually just fully defoliate yours? my wife thinks I'm crazy BTW HAHA[/QUOTE]


Drew, I was referring to full defoliation. Partial defoliation is not really debilitating to a tree to any significant degree. Partial is useful, if completely necessary, to keep interior areas healthy. You can perform partial defoliation at any time preferably after leaves harden off. For full defoliation on Japanese maples I would not do it more than once a year. Tridents, by contrast can take several defoliations per growing season.

Either technique it's time consuming for sure. I have a Sharp's pygmy that is so dense that I have to split the work into a couple of days in order to partially defoliate the entire canopy. I only fully defoliate certain trees while others never. For this they must be very healthy and vigorous.
 
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