Juniper cascade progression

[Lazylightningny]

If you are getting brown ends you are pinching worng. And Yes pinching does remove growing tips from the pads just like candle removal removes the growing tips from pads on Pines. It's not what you do it's how you do it.

What is the correct way to pinch? I hope I'm not the only one with sledgehammers for fingers.

 

[Vance Wood]

What is the correct way to pinch? I hope I'm not the only one with sledgehammers for fingers.

I pinch only to reconcile the continuity of the profile. Like as has been described long growth is always handled with scissors at a joint. but small extended tips can be pinched by holding between thumb and middle finger and twisted off so that it breaks at a joint not tear off in the middle of something. This is done using basically the same movement one would use to snap their fingers, or twist the lid off a very, very small bottle.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

small extended tips can be pinched by holding between thumb and middle finger and twisted off so that it breaks at a joint not tear off in the middle of something.

This is the procedure Hagedorn and many other Japanese-trained artists specifically advise against performing. My junipers are healthier for abandoning this procedure. Yours look fine; clearly your method works for you.

 

[Vance Wood]

This is the procedure Hagedorn and many other Japanese-trained artists specifically advise against performing. My junipers are healthier for abandoning this procedure. Yours look fine; clearly your method works for you.

You're right, most people that pinch do not realize that the idea is to, #1 understand that junipers, even on the smallest level are segmented and #2, pinching is the process of getting that growth to break off at one of those segments. I suppose that many are taught improperly and simply tear the new growth off. So it would seem that God is in the details. I will try to make and post a video about how I do this if people are really interested. Personally I have never been haunted by brown ends.

 

[october]

Regarding the whole pinching cutting thing. Here is something that might be worth mentioning about junipers in long term development. I have been developing some of my current junipers for maybe 6-8 years. I have done very little pinching. Literally just pinching a foliage tuft or 2 here and there throughout the season. So you could say I have not utilized the pinching technique in the development of my junipers. However, here is where things get interesting..lol.. I think I am starting to see that you might not be able to use the scissors to the same degree on your junipers after many years of training. There simply is not the right kind of growth to continuously cut. I am wondering if after maybe 7-8 years plus of training certain junipers, that pinching actually needs to be incorporated into the trees regular training.

I believe that this may be where Vance is at right now. Vance has been training trees for 30-40 years. How many times can you actually cut back with scissors. Perhaps after a decade of training, the cutting actually becomes more stressful than simple pinching to keep the shape. Also, I think variety might have something to do with it. Especially procumbens. Seems like after long term training, they may not be very fond of the scissors. lol I have one that I really can't cut anything. Probably won't be able to anytime soon. However, the silhouette continues to expand. Pinching might be the only option at future points.

Of course, I cannot say these things with certainty. I have been thinking these things lately. Then when Brian and Vance began discussing it, I was reminded. Lastly, it can be a tedious job having to pinch larger junipers, especially if there are a lot of them.

Rob

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Remember two things:
1. Juniper foliage is never more than 3-4 years old.
2. Trimming and thinning gradually and continuously replaces old branches with new. This is how bonsai are kept "young"; similar to root pruning. Constant pinching of the same branches results in weak growth at the tips of old, constricting branches. You need to replace those old branches all the time with new, young plump growth. This was an "ah-ha moment"/gold nugget from Peter Warren's visit a few years ago, and I'll never forget it.

 

[october]

Remember two things:
1. Juniper foliage is never more than 3-4 years old.
2. Trimming and thinning gradually and continuously replaces old branches with new. This is how bonsai are kept "young"; similar to root pruning. Constant pinching of the same branches results in weak growth at the tips of old, constricting branches. You need to replace those old branches all the time with new, young plump growth. This was an "ah-ha moment"/gold nugget from Peter Warren's visit a few years ago, and I'll never forget it.

Yes, these are horticultural facts. However, I am starting to think there may be exceptions. I would like to see specifically established procumbens and possibly San Jose junipers that have been bonsai for at least 12 years. Thomas J had some very nice procumbens that he trained for 10 years just to get mature foliage on. His input would be interesting here.

Rob

 

[Neli]

Dorothy has some procumbens with mature foliage too. She is very good with them.
Dorothy where are you?

 

[KennedyMarx]

Speaking of Dorothy's procumbens, she said that the regular procumbens will not develop mature scale foliage, only procumbens 'nana' does. I hope she doesn't mind me quoting her. I wondered about this myself when I saw scale foliage on some nanas at a local nursery, then a guy in my club gave a presentation on junipers mentioning that they absolutely never get mature foliage.

 

[Dav4]

Speaking of Dorothy's procumbens, she said that the regular procumbens will not develop mature scale foliage, only procumbens 'nana' does. I hope she doesn't mind me quoting her. I wondered about this myself when I saw scale foliage on some nanas at a local nursery, then a guy in my club gave a presentation on junipers mentioning that they absolutely never get mature foliage.

Luckily, the tree highlighted in this thread is a J. squamata...100% needle foliage all the time.... It was cut back hard again toward the end of last month and is doing well.

 

[Dav4]

4 years sure can go by in a snap! This one had a severe spider mite infestation which weakened it badly. In attempting to get it healthy again, it became very overgrown and lost much much of its interior buds. Then, starting 2 years ago, as I had begun the process of pushing the overgrown branches, the apex began to weaken and eventually dried up last summer... the lower cascade began to do the same this past summer and despite thinning the upper canopy, lost most of it's foliage. Also, the deadwood is super punky in places....... sounds like it's time for a re-do!! Anyway, some of the deadwood was cut back and I started with a bit of light wiring today..... I'll apologize in advance for the current pictures. This thing is a beast and I was too tired to haul it over to the redneck photo studio... better shots to come as the work gets close to being done.

 

[Dav4]

 

[Dav4]

Ok, done with wire for now. Many of the branches are overlong and I’m hoping the wiring out and thinning promote lots of back budding. I’ll get more deadwood work done if it ever stops raining.

 

[Dav4]

Re-pot today… Raised up a bit and slightly different planting angle, along with cranking a new steeper curve into the cascade and branch. I think sitting higher and having the new angle of the cascade breaks the tree out of the slightly boring form it had been previously. I will let this one settle into the soil for a bit before rearranging branches.

 

[sorce]

That new stance is better!

It looks able now, alive.

Much more engaging and dynamic.

Swell!

Sorce

 

[Crazy Diamond]

Any update?

 

[Dav4]

Any update?

I traded it with a friend this past spring.