Juniper communis montana - minimal taper

[Drewski]

So, I got this the other day. The movement of the trunk really grabbed me, so I bought it. After getting it home and some clean up, I’ve been looking at it some more. And realized that the taper is really, really gradual. It’s there, I know because I measured it. So how bad is it? And what would you folks do?

In the meantime, I’ve learned another lesson about picking out material at a nursery.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Communis can be reaaaaal slow to grow and be pretty touchy about root work.
If you want to fatten it up, as with any juniper, it's good to keep the low branches and let those run wild. They'll add some girth to the base.

But since they're so slow, I'm not sure what kind of timeframe we're talking about. Could be 5, could be 15 years.

In my view, the taper is reasonable. I can see a nice bunjin or literati profile in there and it would fit their natural growth habit. I do have to admit I'm not the person to ask about design and styling, but that's my first impression.

 

[sorce]

It's not a terrible purchase, glad you learned something, though, our wallets don't learn as fast!

You'd still have quite the graceful trunk if you layered it above the low parts, I'd do that and call it a 2fer.

Sorce

 

[Drewski]

Thanks guys.

@Wires_Guy_wires, after looking at a lot of images for what you suggested I can see the potential for that. I like it.

@sorce, I’ve still got a lot of learning to do in that regard. I still see to often see something with one nice feature and focus on that, forgetting about the other features that when combined make it a piece worth grabbing. I’m getting better, but the progress is slow. If I did the airlayer, which would be a learning experience all its own , what would you suggest be done with the bottom? I’m drawing a blank aside from trying to grow a new leader.

 

[sorce]

be done with the bottom

Once the top is removed, you'll probably get buds popping are the shoulders of those low branches. I don't think I'd worry about doing to much except cutting that Wang off.

"New Leaders" are overrated.

Sorce

 

[Drewski]

I winced when reading “cutting that Wang off”.

I nsaw in another thread regarding J. communis that this may not actually be communis. I was relying on the tag on the plant. Here’s a better shot of the foliage. What do you guys think? Was it labelled incorrectly?

 

[Flowerhouse]

I winced when reading “cutting that Wang off”.

I nsaw in another thread regarding J. communis that this may not actually be communis. I was relying on the tag on the plant. Here’s a better shot of the foliage. What do you guys think? Was it labelled incorrectly?

What I saw when I tried to look it up was juniperus chinensis montana. Does that look more like it?

Juniperus Montana Moss | Bluestone Perennials

Soft Textured

www.bluestoneperennials.com

 

[Drewski]

I was able to find a couple of close ups of the foliage of that one, and it doesn’t look like what I have,

 

[Flowerhouse]

what I have

... is a nice juniper, even if it is mislabeled.

FWIW, I have 2 struggling j. Chinensis "Old Gold" that don't look anything like what they are supposed to be. I have a bunch more of them that are doing very well considering our climate here, but they'll never look like the plant catalogs.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@Drewski
Taper, junipers often do not have a great deal of taper. Don't obsess on the issue. Keep the low branches, allow them to run. It is important to have your juniper in full sun. Full sun is required to get healthy growth on your junipers. This means sunrise to sunset full sun, not just a few hours. The photo suggests it gets shade for part of the day. Move it to full sun. If your plans include increasing the diameter of the trunk over time, there is plenty of time to correct or increase the taper. The low branches will grow and thicken the trunks only if they get sun, don't let them be shaded. Thin top growth if necessary to allow sun to get to the lower branches.

It is difficult to offer a design suggestion from your photos, you need to retake your photos with a plain white or neutral background, for yourself, or if you want design suggestions. Use the photos to draw possible designs. (either virtually in a pant program, or on paper). When you draw, take the photos with the lens on the same plane as the top rim of the pot. This is the perspective angle bonsai are judged from. Make various drawings removing one branch then another, do it from all sides of the tree. See what looks good to your eye. The exercise will help you "see" the tree, and help you with your other trees.

When cutting any branches off, make them deadwood features, strip the bark from the parts of a branch you were going to cut off. This will give a more natural look, as junipers do not heal "chops" the way an elm or other deciduous tree might. Leaving deadwood may look awkward, but later it can always be shortened, carved to look more natural or after the tree has continued to grow, eventually they can be cut flush to be healed over. But initially leave lots of deadwood.

On the topic of identity. The tree was labeled at the nursery, right? The label was put there by the professional nursery. It is their "bread and butter" to have their plants labelled correctly. Go with the nursery label, keep an open mind, but usually the nurseries have a vested interest in getting the identity correct. It is difficult for any mere mortal to distinguish one juniper from another from just a couple photographs. Also, "montana" is a common botanical adjective, added to the names of many different unrelated plants, as it simply means "from the mountains" used to describe the origins of a particular plant. When capitalized, Montana is either the name of a state of USA, or a city, or a person. Stick with with nursery tag. I can lay out photos of foliage all from the same juniper, but taken from different parts of the bush, and "Internet Experts" will give each photo a different species name. Similarly, foliage from different species depending on whether shade or sun grown can all look the same. It is not just the foliage that separates one juniper species from another. The key characteristics have to do with flowers and morphology of the seeds. Foliage is not "definitive" for distinguishing juniper species. So don't worry about ID, go with your plant tag from the nursery..

 

[Forsoothe!]

I winced when reading “cutting that Wang off”.

I nsaw in another thread regarding J. communis that this may not actually be communis. I was relying on the tag on the plant. Here’s a better shot of the foliage. What do you guys think? Was it labelled incorrectly?

I may stand alone here, but that ain't no Juniper. Looks closer to Cryptomeria. Fatter scales and tips are not as sharply pointed as Juniper, also darker green. Is the foliage soft to the touch? When crushed, does it smell like Juniper?

 

[Drewski]

The mystery deepens. So I crushed a bit of foliage and it doesn’t have that typical juniper smell. I double checked by crushing a bit of foliage from another plant that I’m certain is a juniper. I’m not sure how to describe the smell of the first one, but it doesn’t have that almost stringent smell of a juniper. Here’s another picture with some berries it has,

 

[Bonsai Nut]

So, I got this the other day. The movement of the trunk really grabbed me, so I bought it. After getting it home and some clean up, I’ve been looking at it some more. And realized that the taper is really, really gradual. It’s there, I know because I measured it. So how bad is it? And what would you folks do?

In the meantime, I’ve learned another lesson about picking out material at a nursery.

Just going to say that you chose this tree for many of the right reasons. This is an old nursery tree. It has been in the pot a long time. You will not find a tree with this age and character at a Home Depot or other mass garden center (and I don't even know where you bought it).

Get rid of the stub at the soil that looks like a part of male anatomy And no, definitely don't jin it

This has a nice graceful weeping growth habit because it was staked up a long time ago - since it is naturally a creeping form. It isn't a J. communis "Montana". It is a J. communis var. montana. In other words it isn't a cultivar, it is a naturally occurring variety of J. communis that comes from Montana - with the chunky needles instead of the spiky needles you normally expect from J. communis (which look similar to J. rigida).



Strangely, I was just at a nursery yesterday looking at several J. communis cultivars (though not this variety). I saw a couple that looked similar to this - with the rounded needles - and at first I thought (like @Forsoothe! ) that they might be cryptomeria. At the same nursery, I saw an upright J. communis with extremely spiky needles that looked (to me) like the spitting image of a J. rigida. Right next to it was a J. rigida in a weeping form that I had never seen before. You won't see these "less usual" cultivars or varieties in the big box stores... which is why I love visiting all the local nurseries!

At any rate, back to the tree in question. I love the grace in the trunk. Do not get distracted by the apex that currently projects to the right. Imagine if you reduced it (or wired it to down) and styled the entire tree in a willow or weeping style. Very feminine. Very cool. Feminine trees don't need (and don't want) dramatic taper. Beauty over strength The reason why it doesn't have a chunky trunk or dramatic taper is because, as a creeper, it is used to running long growth. I had a J. conferta "Blue Pacific" above my koi pond that ran for 15'... but the trunk at the nebari was perhaps 1" thick. Take the same tree and stake it vertically, and the trunk will thicken dramatically. But the second you remove vertical support, it will weep/droop back to the ground.


Last thought... that little branch on the bottom right I would not remove. I would wire it up like a mini twin trunk to provide balance to the rest of the design.

 

[Drewski]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Some great suggestions. The stub will definitely go, and with the way it has grown out of the trunk it will leave behind a scar that will provide a little shari. Maybe I can do more with that in the future. And I looked at the branch creating the apex. With how it’s growing straight up to start before going horizontal I don’t think wiring it down would work with any of the suggestions. I’m not in a rush to do anything immediately, so I’ll leave It for now as I continue to study the tree. And I’ll try my hand at a little sketching as @Leo in N E Illinois suggested.

 

[Forsoothe!]

OK, I can accept that.