Juniper Experts Please

milehigh_7

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Is there a difference between the trees sold as:

Juniperus Chinensis 'Sargentii and Juniperus Chinensis 'Shimpaku'?


On this site:
bci.com

I find the following:
"Sargent's Juniper - Juniperus chinensis sargentii

General information: In Japan, this tree is called "shimpaku" and thus it is often referred to in western countries as "shimpaku juniper"."

So, are they the same?:confused:
 
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Hmmm, your title precludes most of us from answering. I'm no expert, but I have always thought they were one and the same. I have also heard that "shimpaku" is an Americanization of shinpaku.

Chris
 

milehigh_7

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lol well I suppose using me as a reference you all are experts. I am just real curious on the correct nomenclature.
 

treebeard55

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I'm no expert either, and no longer keep junipers, except shimpakus.

But I read recently that the nomenclature for that variety is so muddied you'd think a Congressional committee had come up with it. Apparently, the full botanical name (at present) is something like "Juniperus chinensis sargentii var. 'Shimpaku'."

From pictures I've seen, I think "sargentii and 'shimpaku' are the same.
 

pauldogx

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I'll try to dig it up---I think its in Bonsai Focus--but Sargentii has been reclassified on it s own as different from Shimpaku. What I have seen sold here in Eastern PA as Sargentii definitely has different folige than Shimpaku. The traditional Shimpaku (Japanese type) is considered Juniperus Chinensis--the more generic classification.
 

daniel

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If you look at the foliage of Sargetii versus that of Shimpaku, you'll see the difference. I just recently asked this question of a botanist friend of mine. She stated that the "3-d foliage" effect of the shimpaku is not found on the Sargentii. She was adamant about it and showed me the sargentii and it was not even close to being the same as the shimpaku I have.

My $0.02.

Daniel
 

shohin kid

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I am no expert but . . . . . . . . . . . the botanical name for shimpaku is
juniperus chinensis 'Shimpaku'

The botanical name for itoigawa shimpaku is
juniperus chinensis 'Itoigawa'

These are according to the Missouri Botanical Garden

Sargetii is a totally different juniper
 

Smoke

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I find this all very entertaining. Talking about the Japanese name for LATIN nomenclature for a Chinese species. No wonder there is confusion.

How about it's a juniper and go with that....
 

greerhw

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All the Japanese and Chinese junipers are juniperus chinensis, just different varieties and sub varieties. "shimpaku" the most common variety for bonsai has a broader foliage pad than the sub varieties, my favorite are "Itowgawa" and "Kishu" both have smaller and tighter foliage. That's all I know for sure, maybe some expert will pop up and take it further.

Ciao,
Harry
 

TheSteve

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Harry you missed Japanese garden juniper. It's procumbens not chinensis.;)
 

serpentsgarden

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in theory

Well in theory this would make all the cultivars breedable for new cultivars?? Are they the same or not shoudl be simple and i am sure if one researches deep enough you can find somehard science to prove it. I would tend to think they are there own breeds but like dogs they are all dogs and that you could crossbreed them in maturity for new types fo foliage patterns. They have different foliage but so does a matsumurae versues a cutleaf variety yet they are still the same species. I would tend to think researching the native mountain side of japan and korea would lend an answer better than digging through garden books to find the real answer. Find the tree the samurai cultivated from the mountain and i bet it has characteristics of both in the wild just have been refined through selective breeding to produce more refined types just as japanes maples were. That is my take on it though
 

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