juniper grafting tips please

barrosinc

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So I would like to start saying, I read this:
http://bonsaitonight.com/2013/04/30/grafting-utah-juniper-a-post-without-words/
http://bonsaitonight.com/2013/09/20/graft-after-care/
http://bonsaitonight.com/2014/08/05/grafting-utah-juniper-removing-the-original-foliage/

And watched this fred miyahara video.
part 1:
part 2:

This is my juniper, I didn't take the pic, and it is all I have, it has a very long straight section...

IMG-20150723-WA0024.jpg
But it is what I have and has been in that pot since collection from a garden for 4 years. The live vain goes through the back.

So, just a couple of questions.
I have a couple of shimpakus, kinda small... 1/4 trunk that look like a 8-10 inch ball, and the foliage I could graft is probably 3mm and I could get like 6. I read that Eric Schrader only ended up using 2 grafts that took on his grafted juniper.

From those links I could not see how the grafts looked from the side, do they align perfectly? is the cambium touching?

Any tips would be happily accepted, good links with more info too.

The good thing is, there is always a next year, but I appreciate the help.
 

thomas22

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I no expert but I recently grafted a Chinese Juniper so I did a bit of research on the subject. Your video show grafting cutting onto branches for reasons of changing the foliage type. From what I remember this is best done in very early spring. I'm not sure but I think you want to graft to get foliage lower on the trunk. If so an approach graft may be a better option and can be done now. This is the method I used although slightly different http://www.ofer-grunwald-bonsai.com/step-by-step-grafting-a-juniper-at-the-jbg/
Here are a few pictures of my graft. I think the key is getting a tight fit and finding the live vein. I actually wanted to graft on the other side of the trunk but it was all dead wood. Just did the graft a few week ago so I have no idea if it will be successful. Hope this helps.

graft3.JPG 6-6-15 graft.JPG
 

barrosinc

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Thanks a lot Thomas, I am wondering... my donor trees aren't really that big, and I want to get the best out of the growing season for both. That is why I wanted to use the scion method, I might be mistaken, spring is right around the corner as the plums have started blossoming.

I would really appreciate some more help on deciding a method.
 

thomas22

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I forgot you lived in Chile so this is a good time of year for both scion and approach grafting. If you wanted to graft to a thick trunk then I think an approach graft is a better option. If you want to graft to smaller branches then I would try scion grafts. I also don't see why you couldn't try both methods provided you have adequate donor material.
 

Vin

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I no expert but I recently grafted a Chinese Juniper so I did a bit of research on the subject. Your video show grafting cutting onto branches for reasons of changing the foliage type. From what I remember this is best done in very early spring. I'm not sure but I think you want to graft to get foliage lower on the trunk. If so an approach graft may be a better option and can be done now. This is the method I used although slightly different http://www.ofer-grunwald-bonsai.com/step-by-step-grafting-a-juniper-at-the-jbg/
Here are a few pictures of my graft. I think the key is getting a tight fit and finding the live vein. I actually wanted to graft on the other side of the trunk but it was all dead wood. Just did the graft a few week ago so I have no idea if it will be successful. Hope this helps.

View attachment 78750 View attachment 78749
That graft ain't going nowhere :D
 

barrosinc

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Thanks Thomas, I think I will do the aproximation grafting and do a bunch of cuttings for next spring second grafting session.
2 this year, maybe 4 next year.
 

barrosinc

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does it look like san josé or pfitzeriana??? does it matter?
Can both these be grafted with shimpaku?
 

barrosinc

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as conclusion: aproximation is the best way if grafted on a trunk? And scion donnor if on a branch?
 

thomas22

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I think people are so busy heckling Vance for that Juniper Pinching Video they don't have time for you. Most of the trunk grafting I see is done by approach graft. Most of the small branch grafting I see is by scion graft. This does not mean you can't do a scion graft on a trunk and visa versa. It depends on many factors. Do you have a good climate for scion grafting. Most of the scion grafting in the US is done in the warmer climates like California and Florida. Do you have good donor material for Approach? It should be healthy and at least 6 inches tall. If you go scion and it fails at least you will only have little scars that will heal quickly. A failed approach graft will leave a larger wound. If this is good time of year for Scion then just go for it. If they fail then you can try the approach graft in the summer. Looking forward to an update.
 

barrosinc

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Thanks Thomas!
I live in city with a very long growing season with barely any freezing at all. Maybe 5 days a year in winter, in spring maybe a day or two, but I can protect the trees those days.
I don't have great donor material, I have two shimpakus very small but I will give those a try, maybe can use two branches from a single donor plant. I have a couple of very small cuttings, I will make more this year. For better grafting next year. I will get some practice grafting scions on a house landscape plant at my in-laws house.

I can't really see how much to scrape off or how deep, how long, etc.. to get the least scaring on approximation grafts.

I haven't seen the plant in a month or so... and the long straight part will have to be worked with (probably shortened and jinned).
 

barrosinc

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Here is the donor tree... Could anyone draw a line on the image on were the scion should be cut? Or from the image I have to go further in to get something thicker?

20150823_112633.jpg

Is the only requirement for it, is to be lignified?
 

Eric Schrader

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Max,

Your last photo there - you're going to need more branch than that. The minimum size is about 3mm diameter branch, e.g. the wood is that thick. I was interested to see Fred Miyahara using larger scions, like 5-8mm, or 1/8-1/4" in diameter. I've never used one that large but now that i see it done I don't see why not.

For me the trickiest part has always been getting the cut deep enough in the receiving branch to get the scion all the way in. So perhaps I'll also try his triple cut method next time.

I should say that my scion grafting experience is minimal compared to Fred - only a dozen trees or so for me. I've also done approach grafts on a dozen or so trees using some different techniques each time with varying results. So far the result I like the most is the recent one that Boon showed me where you use a saw to make a channel for the graft and then scrape the sides and slide it in until it's snug. The union is very natural looking where and approach graft using a flap can end up just sitting on the surface of the branch.

The sharpness of your knife makes a big difference btw. Get it ridiculously sharp, like if you touch it you're in trouble. Using it to create the scion I normally lay the branch on a piece of soft wood and slant the knife. You want the cut to be flat, not dished as you move the knife through. And the end of it should be square, not diagonal, like Fred shows in the video.

My recommendation would be to do some scion grafting for practice as you come out of winter dormancy this spring. Then during the summer do some approach grafts too. There's no reason not to do a lot of grafts on a tree, particularly if you put the practice ones on branches that will be eliminated anyway. When I grafted the tree that is going to Portland I did three practice grafts in positions up on the trunk section that was later removed. They all took and it was one of my first attempts and supervised by Boon.

Varieties - some varieties are easy, some are hard, but if they're a juniper they should be compatible. I have shimpaku on procumbens stock, shimpaku on pfitzer, shimpaku on some random landscape nasty foliage thing, shimpaku on Utah junipers etc.
 

barrosinc

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Max,

Your last photo there - you're going to need more branch than that. The minimum size is about 3mm diameter branch, e.g. the wood is that thick. I was interested to see Fred Miyahara using larger scions, like 5-8mm, or 1/8-1/4" in diameter. I've never used one that large but now that i see it done I don't see why not.

For me the trickiest part has always been getting the cut deep enough in the receiving branch to get the scion all the way in. So perhaps I'll also try his triple cut method next time.

I should say that my scion grafting experience is minimal compared to Fred - only a dozen trees or so for me. I've also done approach grafts on a dozen or so trees using some different techniques each time with varying results. So far the result I like the most is the recent one that Boon showed me where you use a saw to make a channel for the graft and then scrape the sides and slide it in until it's snug. The union is very natural looking where and approach graft using a flap can end up just sitting on the surface of the branch.

The sharpness of your knife makes a big difference btw. Get it ridiculously sharp, like if you touch it you're in trouble. Using it to create the scion I normally lay the branch on a piece of soft wood and slant the knife. You want the cut to be flat, not dished as you move the knife through. And the end of it should be square, not diagonal, like Fred shows in the video.

My recommendation would be to do some scion grafting for practice as you come out of winter dormancy this spring. Then during the summer do some approach grafts too. There's no reason not to do a lot of grafts on a tree, particularly if you put the practice ones on branches that will be eliminated anyway. When I grafted the tree that is going to Portland I did three practice grafts in positions up on the trunk section that was later removed. They all took and it was one of my first attempts and supervised by Boon.

Varieties - some varieties are easy, some are hard, but if they're a juniper they should be compatible. I have shimpaku on procumbens stock, shimpaku on pfitzer, shimpaku on some random landscape nasty foliage thing, shimpaku on Utah junipers etc.
Thanks so much for your help.
I might try some grafting on some garden junipers soon.
 

barrosinc

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Does anyone know of a video that separates dead wood from live vain and adds a heavy bend to the live vain.

Any link, video, blog post is welcome.

I remember sawgrass did something like it but I cannot find it not I know how to search for it.
 

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barrosinc

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so here is my stuff, ready for august!
 

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barrosinc

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So grafting this weekend.
The plan: (I drew it on a coaster)

2016-08-05 10.27.35.jpg

Which would imply grafting at approximately the red lines:

2016-08-05 10.22.35.jpg

What do you think?
 
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Vin

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It's not setting in front of us to look at but I would add at least a couple more grafts to include one on the right side of the tree.
 
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