Juniper Health Issue - Interior Foliage Browning

[eeeealmo]

Hey Everyone - I have multiple shimpaku (both kishu and itoigawa) that are experiencing similar health problems that I can't seem to get under control. Interior foliage is turning a tan color while the apical tips continue to grow. The browning moves up the branch until the tip stops pushing and everything fails. The trees are in a variety of mediums from akadama/pumice/lava to an organic mix.

I've tried numerous fungicides including a copper spray, clearys3336 spray, and subdueMaxx. I'm at my wits end, and have no idea what to try to save what I can. Any help would be wonderful. Thanks!

 

[bwaynef]

If you have multiple trees doing this and you've already tried several fungicides, it might make sense to find out exactly what you're up against. I'd contact your county extension office and see if there is a plant pathogen service that you can send a sample off to.

This looks like one of the tip blights on juniper. Most broad spectrum fungicides usually handle it though. I've had trees that had it and it hasn't been fatal. I prefer to prevent them getting it by using inorganic fertilizer and giving the trees plenty of sunlight and adequate spacing.

 

[nuttiest]

In the meanwhile, try mancozeb. Save your subdue for crown rot.
If you want to try a natural plant response try methyl salicylate.

 

[eeeealmo]

In the meanwhile, try mancozeb. Save your subdue for crown rot.
If you want to try a natural plant response try methyl salicylate.

oh forgot to mention mancozeb on the list of things i've tried.

i'm curious how many treatments one would expect to fix this problem if it persists across multiple plants. I'd say over the past 2 months i've sprayed 3-4 times (each time something different, admittedly).

 

[nuttiest]

Do the mancozeb again if it's been 2 weeks I wish you had older pix, like is the good foliage there better than what it was before you started, it almost looks like something is working, doesn't it?

 

[eeeealmo]

Do the mancozeb again if it's been 2 weeks I wish you had older pix, like is the good foliage there better than what it was before you started, it almost looks like something is working, doesn't it?

At times i think that yes, but other times i feel like it's not

 

[nuttiest]

Maybe try the wintergreen on just one - wintergreen alcohol from pharmacy mix at 25% alcohol.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

When I have this happen, it's usually something in the root system that's bothering them. I think Ryan Neil did a video or a podcast on it this spring, something with interior foliage dying; they tilted the pot to stop that from happening. Too much water is a possibility, but I wouldn't rule out an excess of nutrients and a consecutive tip burn on the weaker foliage.
If fungicides prove ineffective, there's still a possibility it's bacterial: two different organisms respond to different antibiotics. Throwing some diluted (1,5%) peroxide on the soil might help, since anaerobic bacteria usually don't like the stuff.

 

[bwaynef]

If its one of the tip blights, the proper fungicide will NOT restore the life/color to the tips that are already affected.

 

[bwaynef]

I prefer to prevent them getting it by using inorganic fertilizer and giving the trees plenty of sunlight and adequate spacing.

That was supposed to be soil. Sorry for the confusion. Its too late for me to go back and edit that post.

 

[eeeealmo]

When I have this happen, it's usually something in the root system that's bothering them. I think Ryan Neil did a video or a podcast on it this spring, something with interior foliage dying; they tilted the pot to stop that from happening. Too much water is a possibility, but I wouldn't rule out an excess of nutrients and a consecutive tip burn on the weaker foliage.
If fungicides prove ineffective, there's still a possibility it's bacterial: two different organisms respond to different antibiotics. Throwing some diluted (1,5%) peroxide on the soil might help, since anaerobic bacteria usually don't like the stuff.

Great suggestion.

I just did a healthy spray of mancozeb this morning on every juniper I have. Will keep an eye on them for the next week or two and try that if it persists.

 

[eeeealmo]

If its one of the tip blights, the proper fungicide will NOT restore the life/color to the tips that are already affected.

Yes did not expect those to return

 

[eeeealmo]

So I sprayed a dose of mancozeb last week (6 days ago at this point), and they already look noticably worse . Was planning to do a copper spray tomorrow, and a follow up spray of mancozeb the next week (2 weeks after the first).

I know it's a stretch, but is there a chance the mancozeb is causing damage? I used a ratio of 0.5 gallons water to 2.5 tsp of mancozeb.

Really grasping at straws here

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I'm still suspecting root issues. If you have any measuring devices, I would check the salt contents (TDS or EC value) of your runoff water.
I'd also probe the soil, check the bottom pot holes. If there's a lot of gunk or a compost-like smell, that might be a sign.

But what did the label of your fungicide say? I'm reading somewhere in between two and two point five grams per liter of water.
For 0.5 gallon that's about 4 grams. If your tsp are teaspoons, that should probably fit the directions. If your tsp are tablespoons, you've been pumping them full of poison.

What source of water are you using? The tap? If it's rain barrels or something found in the open air, you might want to change to tap water just to keep water bound disease away for a while.

 

[eeeealmo]

I'm still suspecting root issues. If you have any measuring devices, I would check the salt contents (TDS or EC value) of your runoff water.
I'd also probe the soil, check the bottom pot holes. If there's a lot of gunk or a compost-like smell, that might be a sign.

Funny you should say that. I live in san jose, CA, and we have some of the worst water in the country (TDS = 480), which is why i typically use a RO system. That being said I had to disable the RO system last month for 3-4 weeks during construction and used tap water instead. I actually lost dozens of trees during this time, under the assumption that our water is even worse than usual because of the drought.

All of that being said, I've been back on RO water for several weeks now (early sept), so unless there was build up in the pots that are still causing harm, current water quality shouldn't be an issue.

But what did the label of your fungicide say? I'm reading somewhere in between two and two point five grams per liter of water.
For 0.5 gallon that's about 4 grams. If your tsp are teaspoons, that should probably fit the directions. If your tsp are tablespoons, you've been pumping them full of poison.

Yes, that was teaspoons.

What source of water are you using? The tap? If it's rain barrels or something found in the open air, you might want to change to tap water just to keep water bound disease away for a while.

Currently using a mix of the RO mentioned above, and rain water from closed rain barrels collected a week or two ago during a random storm.

Thanks a ton for the reply, and all the thoughts.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Alright, that is something to work with. Junipers can take a while to show damage and it might be from something that happened in the past. But since the issues showed up early, I'd put my money in some bacterial soil issue basket.
Phytophtora is a known issue for some junipers and most broad spectrum fungicides have a hard time curing it. Not sure what can be done about it, but the symptoms of waterlogged soil can be similar. So there's a 50/50 chance. If all your fungicides have failed, I would go for waterlogging or something related to water. But that would require investigation of the rootball.

This is one of those cases where I personally would give myself two options: either wait it out and hope for the best, or get them out of that soil and do an emergency repot. None of these will have a high possibility of success. I don't know what San Jose winters are like, but from my limited topographical knowledge of the US, I'd say that your winters wouldn't be that cold. So a repot, even though it's the wrong time of year, would have my preference. If the issue was caused by an excess of nutrients for example (I can't get around the fact that I see a lot of those pellets in your soil), you would rid yourself of that problem by changing the soil.
Two birds, one stone.

But again, not entirely sure what could have caused this. But since the issue keeps expanding, I personally wouldn't wait it out.

 

[eeeealmo]

Alright, that is something to work with. Junipers can take a while to show damage and it might be from something that happened in the past. But since the issues showed up early, I'd put my money in some bacterial soil issue basket.
Phytophtora is a known issue for some junipers and most broad spectrum fungicides have a hard time curing it. Not sure what can be done about it, but the symptoms of waterlogged soil can be similar. So there's a 50/50 chance. If all your fungicides have failed, I would go for waterlogging or something related to water. But that would require investigation of the rootball.

This is one of those cases where I personally would give myself two options: either wait it out and hope for the best, or get them out of that soil and do an emergency repot. None of these will have a high possibility of success. I don't know what San Jose winters are like, but from my limited topographical knowledge of the US, I'd say that your winters wouldn't be that cold. So a repot, even though it's the wrong time of year, would have my preference. If the issue was caused by an excess of nutrients for example (I can't get around the fact that I see a lot of those pellets in your soil), you would rid yourself of that problem by changing the soil.
Two birds, one stone.

But again, not entirely sure what could have caused this. But since the issue keeps expanding, I personally wouldn't wait it out.

I actually did a subduemaxx root soak of this tree over the weekend - just in case there was a root fungus. This tree's soil isnt the best, so it's possible there are other issues going on in there. I'll consider a repot, but i don't think i have much time left regardless of what happens lol

 

[nuttiest]

We need more info if you have dozens dying. Also how much work you have time for, repotting, putting root rot plants in kiddie pool soak, etc. If it is phytopthora you are looking at repeat soaks over time. If they sit on the ground in soil contact then you have to do something about that.
It will be helpful a list of species that you have had all year doing well right now, and those doing poorly. I get a feeling it is not just the junipers?

 

[eeeealmo]

We need more info if you have dozens dying. Also how much work you have time for, repotting, putting root rot plants in kiddie pool soak, etc. If it is phytopthora you are looking at repeat soaks over time. If they sit on the ground in soil contact then you have to do something about that.
It will be helpful a list of species that you have had all year doing well right now, and those doing poorly. I get a feeling it is not just the junipers?

I'm of the mind that the dozens of trees failing due to (as far as I can tell) water quality issues is unrelated to these juniper's problem only because i first saw this issue on a couple of junipers before that incident occurred. The water quality issue might have exacerbated the issue, or weakened them to make them more susceptible to whatever the issue is, but i don't believe it is the underlying cause.

 

[nuttiest]

What is this percentage-wise, do you have a figure(even if a guess)?