Juniper procumbens - Cascade to Literati Cascade?

[Vance Wood]

Here is something you might consider; Bonsai is the art of illusion. Much of the illusion of age is created by working with proportions. If you have a trunk that is 1" accros but the tree's foliage is 12" accros the illusion of an old tree will not be made. You will in fact be reenforcing the trees natural tendency to produce more growth than the branches and trunk are capable of supporting, therefore the tree tends to grow along the ground. However if you have a tree where the trunk is 1" accros and the foliage is 3" accros you now have a tree with old tree proportions that will make a believable bonsai. You might want to consider ways to shorten your foliage pads and reveal some of their branches. All of this stuff makes for an old looking tree. Be careful that those reductions are not done too rapidly or in too extreme a manner.

Also the height of the tree can add to the appearance of age. 1" trunk on a 12" tree looks stupid in an upright shape, but a 1" trunk on the 3" tree is a spectacular tree. In an upright you can go up to four or five inches and still have old tree proportions.

Just some things to think about. It is amazing how things can change for you once you get these ideas in your head. Remember: Most good bonsai are created by starting with larger undeveloped stock and cutting it down into a bonsai with good proportions and interesting growth patterns.

 

[Dorian Fourie]

Here is something you might consider; Bonsai is the art of illusion. Much of the illusion of age is created by working with proportions. If you have a trunk that is 1" accros but the tree's foliage is 12" accros the illusion of an old tree will not be made. You will in fact be reenforcing the trees natural tendency to produce more growth than the branches and trunk are capable of supporting, therefore the tree tends to grow along the ground. However if you have a tree where the trunk is 1" accros and the foliage is 3" accros you now have a tree with old tree proportions that will make a believable bonsai. You might want to consider ways to shorten your foliage pads and reveal some of their branches. All of this stuff makes for an old looking tree. Be careful that those reductions are not done too rapidly or in too extreme a manner.

Also the height of the tree can add to the appearance of age. 1" trunk on a 12" tree looks stupid in an upright shape, but a 1" trunk on the 3" tree is a spectacular tree. In an upright you can go up to four or five inches and still have old tree proportions.

Just some things to think about. It is amazing how things can change for you once you get these ideas in your head. Remember: Most good bonsai are created by starting with larger undeveloped stock and cutting it down into a bonsai with good proportions and interesting growth patterns.

Thanks for that Vance. It really does make one look at it differently and whilst I have always know about dimensions, illusions etc, it never really crossed my mind with the way you explained it.

I explained this to my wife and she said its the same as a small willy with fat legs.

Sometimes I just shake my head and wonder...

I am going to have to save that onto my bonsai page to remember it.

 

[KennedyMarx]

I think the trunk is a little too skinny for the length. Thinning out the growth and wiring pads out on all the branching will make this look a lot better. The big globs of foliage make the trunk look even skinnier. Look at some pictures of bunjin/literati junipers. The trunks are skinny, but they don't look juvenile with the sparse foliage, I mean in addition to the bark and deadwood etc.

 

[M. Frary]

I explained this to my wife and she said its the same as a small willy with fat legs.

Just looks smaller and smaller.
It's a grower,not a shower!

 

[Dorian Fourie]

I think the trunk is a little too skinny for the length. Thinning out the growth and wiring pads out on all the branching will make this look a lot better. The big globs of foliage make the trunk look even skinnier. Look at some pictures of bunjin/literati junipers. The trunks are skinny, but they don't look juvenile with the sparse foliage, I mean in addition to the bark and deadwood etc.

Thanks so much for the Feedback. Really appreciate it.

I definitely have to make the foliage less but I think for now with wanting to try and thicken up the trunk, I am going to leave it as is to just grow wild. We are already into Autumn so come Spring, I will look at it again. I really feel that changing it to a Literati cascade is the way to go so ultimately all the growth along the trunk will be removed with the exception of the final area.

 

[Dorian Fourie]

Just looks smaller and smaller.
It's a grower,not a shower!

 

[Vance Wood]

If you want the tree to grow bigger put it out in the grow bed or pond basket and let it grow for a number of years.

 

[Dorian Fourie]

I am going to leave it as is to just grow wild.

I see now what I typed and I actually meant that I will not do any trimming on the foliage.

Definitely come Spring going to re-pot this tree into a better growing pot with a much better medium, fertilise the hell out of it and let the sucker grow wild. I will only keep my eye on the foliage closest to the end of the cascade as I do not want it to become longer, only thicker.

 

[Vance Wood]

There are two ways to go around with this tree. You continue to make the attempts to make it look as much like a bonsai as you can recognizing the obvious faults mostly the size of the trunk. You make your attempts and allow the tree to grow and develop for many years until low and behold the trunk becomes large enough to make some stylistic changes credible. OR_____You plant the tree out and allow it to grow freely in the garden for many years and hope the trunk develops. However; I have found that if the trunk is not staked up it is not likely that the trunk will grow much larger than it needs to be in order to support the top. If the tree is staked upright the trunk will fatten.

 

[Dorian Fourie]

Thanks Vance.

I will be planting it out in Spring but I never knew about the staking it up. Will definitely look at that when I plant it out.

 

[Dorian Fourie]

Its been 2 1/2 yrs since I updated this thread. Loads of movement has gone into the trunk and the pads have been reduced. Slowly but surely moving in a direction.

 

[defra]

Nice a case of less is more i dig it!
Also the picture taking improved

 

[bonsaichile]

Its been 2 1/2 yrs since I updated this thread. Loads of movement has gone into the trunk and the pads have been reduced. Slowly but surely moving in a direction.
View attachment 211050

I read rhe whole thread, and kudos! Your tree has improved dramatically in 2 1/2 years!

 

[Dorian Fourie]

Nice a case of less is more i dig it!
Also the picture taking improved

I read rhe whole thread, and kudos! Your tree has improved dramatically in 2 1/2 years!

Thanks so much. Slowly but surely moving in the right direction.

 

[defra]

Actualy this one inspired me to see a path forward with one of my first tree's ive still got around but had no further styling plan for it.
Ill tag you when im done thnx

 

[Dorian Fourie]

Actualy this one inspired me to see a path forward with one of my first tree's ive still got around but had no further styling plan for it.
Ill tag you when im done thnx

Please do. Would love to see it

 

[Dorian Fourie]

Just a quick update on this Juniper.

The growth on this juniper has been great after I did the big wire and trim a few months ago. I am happy with this.

I am still going to trim the pads and start wiring them into position. I also want to trim the upper pads first to push more growth down to the lowest part of the cascade.

 

[MAPLE]

Great thread!

Would you consider adding a carefully placed weathered stone at the base to help give the base ''weight''
It feels unbalanced to me and i say this because i too have a Procumbance cascade and im considering this concept. Maybe rock/cliff style planting is our salvation!