Would like some advise. Planning on letting juniper grow for later semi-cascading pruning. Aware that juniper is best grown outside but will keep it indoors during cold January and February (zone 7b New York) and perhaps gradually bring it outside in March. Thoughts?
Juniper purchase by beginner
- Thread starter BarryO
- Start date
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
I don't like both choices.
Cascades are super difficult to do well and most newbies start trying but end up tossing the plant out because it didn't work. I think it's better to let the plant decide what it tells you after wiring the structure. That means a trunk and a primary branch.
Keeping a juniper indoors for two months will kill it.
Now procumbens are cheap, like 7 dollars a piece cheap, so you can always try again but it'd be cooler to save it from certain death.
Cascades are super difficult to do well and most newbies start trying but end up tossing the plant out because it didn't work. I think it's better to let the plant decide what it tells you after wiring the structure. That means a trunk and a primary branch.
Keeping a juniper indoors for two months will kill it.
Now procumbens are cheap, like 7 dollars a piece cheap, so you can always try again but it'd be cooler to save it from certain death.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Should be outside now. Juniper will be able to handle 7b with little problem Provide shelter from the wind and protect the roots with mulch, although unless temps get below 20 F, it really doesn't need it.
Mike Corazzi
Masterpiece
Someday when I am super pissed, I will describe my failure with cascade.
bwaynef
Masterpiece
Sit it outside and stake the longest branch up 'til spring.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Cascades are VERY hard to do, both visually and horticulturally. Visually, it's more than just bending a long branch below the horizontal. Effective cascades generally have a "crown" branch that sits at the apex of the tree vertically somewhere near or over the trunk base. That provides visual "tension" between the trunk and the dropping branch
Horticulturally, the descending branch grows counter to where the main tree wants to grow (which is UP, not down) That means, circulation of nutrients and hormones isn't as effective in the descending branch--which means the branch is always in danger of fading away.
Also, storing a cascade for the winter can be problematic in temperate climates, as root protection requires burying or otherwise protecting them. Since the branch on cascades is BELOW or even with the bottom of the pot, that protection can kill the branch. The two issues of weakening and shelter can be helped a bit by storing the cascade on the side of its pot with the long descending branch pointing upwards. That means, however, the pot will be difficult to water.
Speaking of watering, cascade pots are VERY hard to water, since they're typically deeper and narrower than "regular" bonsai pots. That makes them drain VERY VERY quickly at the top, leaving a typically soggy bottom layer that may not dry out effectively. You have to learn how to properly water cascade pots.
Horticulturally, the descending branch grows counter to where the main tree wants to grow (which is UP, not down) That means, circulation of nutrients and hormones isn't as effective in the descending branch--which means the branch is always in danger of fading away.
Also, storing a cascade for the winter can be problematic in temperate climates, as root protection requires burying or otherwise protecting them. Since the branch on cascades is BELOW or even with the bottom of the pot, that protection can kill the branch. The two issues of weakening and shelter can be helped a bit by storing the cascade on the side of its pot with the long descending branch pointing upwards. That means, however, the pot will be difficult to water.
Speaking of watering, cascade pots are VERY hard to water, since they're typically deeper and narrower than "regular" bonsai pots. That makes them drain VERY VERY quickly at the top, leaving a typically soggy bottom layer that may not dry out effectively. You have to learn how to properly water cascade pots.
MHBonsai
Chumono
Welcome! Many of us started with similar junipers. And...most of us killed our first junipers quick-like.
It'll be fine outside, ASAP. Full sun. Water it by checking the soil with our finger, digging down an inch or so. Should remain moist. Drench it when you water, don't just mist it.
Hardest thing about starting out with junipers is figuring out how to keep it alive and not overworking it out the gate. Focus on getting it growing well and healthy next summer, then go wild with styling into your cascade dream.
Have fun, and get more trees!
jazvessels
Seedling
Junipers can handle sub-zero temps quite well. whether you count C or F
Hermes33
Yamadori
Hi Spuds/rock,
Thank you for this information. I'm starting a couple cascades as I got some nice material at our annual bonsai club auction. I am new, but whenever I do anything I aggressively go after it and I have had ample free time the last 3 months as I am transitioning jobs to research. Could you comment a bit further on the watering and nutrient issue? The juniper is currently in its original pot when I got it and it moved pure laterally, I have a cascade pot I plan on moving it into at the end of summer once the branch has set a bit at least. I don't want to move now as I had to create a fulcrum using a wine cork to hold the branch and a wire through the pot and around the trunk to twist and slowly pull down the main branch. As the trunk was near center, I will also have to move the cork closer to the trunk to get a more aggressive bend. Regarding the apex and descending primary branches, I have plenty to work with and will wire end of summer or fall.
*didn't finish
What care do I need to take when watering? If the water drains quickly, can I adjust the soil consistency at the top to be more water retentive (add more fir bark) and increase the drainage at the bottom via lava rock/pumice ? Are there other things I can do?
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Hermes33
Yamadori
I also have one in a rock pot, it is very shallow and I had to use muck to hold in the actual soil. Any suggestions on this one?
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Hermes33
Yamadori
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rockm
Spuds Moyogi
The advice was for using a cascade pot, which are typically a lot deeper than the "regular" bonsai pot you've pictured. Cascade pots are tall to allow the cascading branch room as well as allow the pot to be placed on a bench, instead of having the cascade branch hang over the edge of a bench. In the case of your pot, watering would be the same as for any other bonsai pot.
Javaman4373
Shohin
It looks like I will find out if this is true. I have a procumbens cascade (the one shown in the profile) in my cool basement with a grow light for the winter. So far it seems quite happy. The temperature in the basement is 50 F +/-. I didn't want to put it in the ground outside for the reasons mentioned- what to do with the cascade branch.
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
I think it'll live if you keep the temperatures low enough. At room temperature it will mean certain death.
Hermes33
Yamadori
I will be putting it into its cascade pot at the end of summer once the branch has set a little to allow us to bend it more and for it to be in a proper pot. This is just the one it came in and began the bending process in. Would like to know what to do once I repot into a cascade regarding soil composition in pot (ie more water retentive Akadama/lava rock at top and more draining pumice/hyuga at bottom?) and watering style.
Paradox
Imperial Masterpiece
I agree with the tree needs to be outside. It was 50 degrees today here in southern NY which is no problem for a juniper.
I have a cascade juniper that is the first tree I ever bought when I got into bonsai as an adult.
During winter, I put it in my cold frame on top of a cement block so it doesn't damage the cascade branch. I cover the cold frame when it gets too cold. The cold frame is up against the north side of my house
It's been kept this way in winter for several years with no issues
I have a cascade juniper that is the first tree I ever bought when I got into bonsai as an adult.
During winter, I put it in my cold frame on top of a cement block so it doesn't damage the cascade branch. I cover the cold frame when it gets too cold. The cold frame is up against the north side of my house
It's been kept this way in winter for several years with no issues
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WNC Bonsai
Omono
I am in zone 7a and have wintered my J. procumbens a couple of different ways. For several years I kept it on a stump surrounded by other conifers to protect against wind. Did fine even when temps hit the mid teens F. This year the cascade was so long I had to do something else. So I put it on the edge of a garden wall where the pot could sit on the elevated ground level with the cascade hanging over the wall. It made it through the 2.5 degree F freeze we had back around xmas. I pulled it out today and rewired it and it seems to have survived the winter so far.
WNC Bonsai
Omono
Messed up and can’t delete the darned thing!
