Juniper yamadori design

JesusFreak

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Need some ideas on this one. The left side is pretty bare except on the tips. Any ideas? 06E304AF-7538-4EB5-9494-5BA2F7268912.jpegA6ECF5D6-2206-4693-BEC1-40F5981814D8.jpeg8F3025A9-B8D5-40DC-BC3E-77A9AB9E4C52.jpeg
 

Hartinez

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It’s a nice tree. When did you collect it? What are your ideas if you e considered any yet?
 

JesusFreak

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My wife and I dug it up on the side of I-75 this past February. I was thinking maybe use the left side for a cascade, or the middle and right as one tree. The problem is that I would want to bend the thick bottom right trunk and I know that won’t be easy/possible. I also thought about using just the middle branch as an informal upright
 

Hartinez

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all of your photos are from an angle looking down on the tree. Can you retake a few photos that from eye level? The level that it would evntally be displayed. Maybe from 3 or 4 different angles. Try to make sure all of the foliage is in the shot also.
 

JesusFreak

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all of your photos are from an angle looking down on the tree. Can you retake a few photos that from eye level? The level that it would evntally be displayed. Maybe from 3 or 4 different angles. Try to make sure all of the foliage is in the shot also.
Yes I can retake some photos. This was the angle that I was going to repot it at. But I’ll take more pics. 2D7FED75-2530-4603-BD27-0A70230962F7.jpeg3A86C576-62DA-4BC7-9DF2-C63E622BF82D.jpeg4E2A3FA8-E7FF-469C-85E5-E84BE4F01C7F.jpeg57B40125-0F07-4084-A409-B6EADD72DD90.jpegF39CE41E-FAB8-4B7F-AB27-6F56ED6BAB30.jpeg
 

Hartinez

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Ok. So I’ve looked at your pics now quite a bit. IMO This is def not easy material to transform to a convincing bonsai in the short term . The trunks I like and the movement in them has promise. The issue is the foliage. As of right now it appears to still be in recovery mode and is very long and leggy. It’s also way up at the tops of each trunk. In order to get this in an optimal position to lay at pads and build a convincing structure, you’d be seriously crunching the trunks down on themselves with lots of raffia and heavy gauge copper. That is doable but a difficult task if your not comfortable with the process. As you mentioned, a cascade is possible, but cascades end up being token styles for trees that are not quite ready yet. My suggestion would be to continue to let this tree grow and each year try to stimulate back budding to chase the foliage back down those trunks even just a little bit. Or, you could next spring wire up the big trunks and scrunch them down. An image like this could be possible I think. But its hard to tell where all of the foliage is coming from on each trunk. You’d really have to manipulate the trunks and branches to achieve a silhouette like this by next year but its possible. waiting a few years though to work on backbudding and foliage may be best though. Also, the foliage on this tree may always be leggy and unkept, but it might have to be something you accept as an attribute on this tree.

all just my thoughts.
 

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Jiminsauga

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My wife and I dug it up on the side of I-75 this past February. I was thinking maybe use the left side for a cascade, or the middle and right as one tree. The problem is that I would want to bend the thick bottom right trunk and I know that won’t be easy/possible. I also thought about using just the middle branch as an informal upright
When you dug it up did you get a good look at the nebari? You seem to be gravitating towards to leaning the tree forward is what because of something we can’t see under the soil line?
 

JesusFreak

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Wow thanks a lot @Hartinez !!! I think I’m gonna let it grow for quite some time. But I do wanna go ahead and start thinking about design. Your picture is very nice. I would like to get it to that. As far as the nebari goes, there really isn’t much to look I don’t think. I’m probably gonna have to let it grow out for about 5 years. I actually dug up three and this is the only one that survived
 

JesusFreak

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Would this be a good tree to try and graft some shimpaku on? I’ve never grafted anything before
 

Hartinez

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Would this be a good tree to try and graft some shimpaku on? I’ve never grafted anything before
Yeah I think so. The trunks are interesting enough. It could be a good opportunity to try you hand at something like that. I’ve never grafted juniper foliage either so I’d be no help there.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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Would this be a good tree to try and graft some shimpaku on? I’ve never grafted anything before
Yes.
Grafting is a major hurdle mentally, because it looks like it's a pro-move but it's not that hard if you take 5-15 minutes per graft and if you have the right tools. And absolute must is grafting tape or parafilm and a super sharp knife, as well as plenty of scions. Make sure you have 2-3x more scions available than you want to graft, and graft at least 2 times as much as you want to keep.

Scion grafting is the easiest, wedge grafting is more difficult because it requires way more alignment and technique. I'm practicing it on pines, but I can't tell if it worked until next spring.. Though the results from wedges are usually faster due to the fact that there are entire branches grafted on instead of lil branchlets.
Some people do not enforce the flap on the receiving tree, I found out this year that it's pretty important to do so. I'm using zip ties next year instead of wire, because zip ties are easier to secure without a lot of movement. My wire tends to be too rigid and pushed the scion around when applying it.

Since all junipers have similar structures, you can practice whenever you'd like on whatever you'd like. A couple of cheap pfizers or procumbens can get you pretty far. It's always good to have a sense of how such a wound heals, even if you don't insert a scion. The callus tissue will show you how scion alignment will work on different branch thicknesses.
 

JesusFreak

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@Wires_Guy_wires it seems very complicated. And without seeing it it’s kinda hard to visualize all that you’re saying. Do you have any pictures or videos of this process? And would you recommend grafting this tree?
 

Shibui

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Scion grafting is the easiest, wedge grafting is more difficult because it requires way more alignment and technique. I'm practicing it on pines, but I can't tell if it worked until next spring.. Though the results from wedges are usually faster due to the fact that there are entire branches grafted on instead of lil branchlets.
Approach grafting is easier by far. There's no need for the same level of accuracy because the scions stay alive on their own roots for as long as required for the union to form. Approach grafts are also much easier on thicker trunks and species with thicker bark that can get in the way of grafting scions.
Just scrape the bark off one side of the scion to be grafted and cut a groove on the stock plant wherever the graft is required. Place the scion in the groove, tie tightly and/or nail it in place then sit back and wait for the union to heal. You can graft larger bits and even end up with an entire branch or replacement to using this method.

Rereading @Wires_Guy_wires post maybe that's what you mean by scion grafting?

Some quick pics of a juniper I grafted years ago
PICT0370.JPG
PICT0374.JPG
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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Approach grafting is easier by far. There's no need for the same level of accuracy because the scions stay alive on their own roots for as long as required for the union to form. Approach grafts are also much easier on thicker trunks and species with thicker bark that can get in the way of grafting scions.
Just scrape the bark off one side of the scion to be grafted and cut a groove on the stock plant wherever the graft is required. Place the scion in the groove, tie tightly and/or nail it in place then sit back and wait for the union to heal. You can graft larger bits and even end up with an entire branch or replacement to using this method.

Rereading @Wires_Guy_wires post maybe that's what you mean by scion grafting?

Some quick pics of a juniper I grafted years ago
View attachment 388735
View attachment 388736
No, I mean scion grafting is easier to perform. It requires fewer tools, less time and if it fails it doesn't leave that big of a scar.
I think I wrote a quick tutorial somewhere in a thread @JesusFreak. I'll have a look and see if I can dig it up.
 

Shibui

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Great article. Very clear explanation of the process.
I stand by my original statement that approach grafting is even easier than that. No need for accuracy and actual failures are almost nil with approach grafts.
Side grafts are increasingly difficult on larger branches and trunks and on thicker bark but approach grafts still work just as well. I can get good rates with side grafts on smaller branches like you showed but have yet to succeed on anything over 3cm thick. The approach grafts on the juniper shown above are on thicker trunks and branches and worked well where side grafts all failed.
Everyone will have their favored techniques and good luck to those with the skills to get good results with other grafts. Approach grafts work better for me an also allow whole branches to be grafted in place.
 

Woocash

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I think it could lend itself to a raft quite nicely.
 

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