JWP approach grafting

Lazylightningny

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I have this young JWP grafted onto JBP roots. I've had it for approximately 1 1/2 years. I chopped the top last spring and roughly wired branches into position last fall. As you can see, there is a long bare stretch of trunk in the middle. The little tuft of foliage on the right is an extra back branch that I wired into position for a graft this spring.

This will be my first ever graft, so I'm a little nervous. Any advice greatly appreciated.
 

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0soyoung

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I've tried many approach grafts on maples and junipers.
  • the groove/notch in the trunk should be as deep as the approaching stem is thick
    • when it is shallower (a consistent mistake of mine), the graft may still take but will produce a conspicuous/ugly 'bump' at what will be the base of the new branch.
  • the path of the groove should be parallel to the line of the stem being grafted to
    • crossing (perpendicular) can still work, but it will be longer as well as more likely to fail
Lastly, before you do it, think about the outcome of the attempt failing - there's going to be a big ugly slash mark on the stem made by the groove. This suggests making the graft on the backside of the stem where it won't be seen. Otherwise, it might be reshaped/carved into a feature or maybe hidden behind foliage = might be a bigger problem than the one you are trying to cure. In this line, you might want to consider a side/veneer graft instead. They are more difficult (in the sense of failure more likely), but the end result of failure is far less conspicuous ('invisible', maybe).
 

Lazylightningny

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  • the groove/notch in the trunk should be as deep as the approaching stem is thick
    • when it is shallower (a consistent mistake of mine), the graft may still take but will produce a conspicuous/ugly 'bump' at what will be the base of the new branch.
Thanks for the tips, Oso. I have a question relating to the quoted statement above. If you make the notch flush with the top of the scion, due to the circular nature of the scion, it seems the cambial layers cannot touch each other. I made a (very) simplistic drawing to illustrate my question. The cambial layer of the tree is in red. It seems that the cambial layers of the tree and scion will not touch. This is why I've always thought that a bulge is a necessary result of making the cambial layers touch. Like I said, this is my first time, so this is all theoretical to me.
 

0soyoung

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With thread grafts the stem with the hole acts like a tourniquet on the threaded stem. Thickening of the thread ultimately exposes it's cambium to the cambium around the hole. The two then produce cambium and phloem continuous to both = successes!

We can expose the cambium of each, match them up and clamp them together to get to the same result. The problem though is that the 'joint' is easily split. So we 'find' the graft failed or that the graft takes a very long time to build up enough new common xylem to hold together. If we make the groove deeper, the approach graft becomes more like a thread graft, mechanically.

I'll try again if this is "clear as mud" still.
 

Adair M

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Approach grafts:

It’s best if you can situate it so the groove goes with the grain, rather than across it.

Yes, do make the groove deep. To completely contain the shaved scion. You want to shave the under side of the scion. You do want it shaved not just in the middle but at both ends where the scion enters and exits the groove. The sides don’t matter that much! It’s the entrance and exit of the groove. That’s where the cambium to cambium contact is made.

Use grafting nails placed to the side of the scion, both top and bottom to secure the scion in place. Place a little piece of rubber atop the scion in the groove, and place a bit of chopstick on top of that. Then nail a couple of staples to hold the rubber and chopstick in place. Then seal with cut paste to prevent water from getting in, especially at the contact zones at top and bottom of groove.
 

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I have this young JWP grafted onto JBP roots. I've had it for approximately 1 1/2 years. I chopped the top last spring and roughly wired branches into position last fall. As you can see, there is a long bare stretch of trunk in the middle. The little tuft of foliage on the right is an extra back branch that I wired into position for a graft this spring.

This will be my first ever graft, so I'm a little nervous. Any advice greatly appreciated.
I think you are right to ask advice, the tree has potential. Take your time, learn about scion grafts, the end result is better. I would not use an approach graft in that position on the trunk.
 

Adair M

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I think you are right to ask advice, the tree has potential. Take your time, learn about scion grafts, the end result is better. I would not use an approach graft in that position on the trunk.
I agree with this. I posted the details about approach grafting because he asked. But scion grafts would be better.
 
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You have a trunk without a scar, keep it that way. Place the branches at a more downward angle. Keep in mind that your pads will be higher in the future. I do see the open space and other spaces that are a bit crowded. If grafting is needed do the scion graft. No experience myself.
 

petegreg

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I can see there's a branch growing some 45° to the left-rear. Any possibility to bend it down and to the front? In few years of growth it can fill the empty space just fine...
20171112_095122.jpg
 

River's Edge

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I can see there's a branch growing some 45° to the left-rear. Any possibility to bend it down and to the front? In few years of growth it can fill the empty space just fine...
View attachment 173356
That is a good suggestion to accommodate the concern. I have used that approach also in the past. However, years from now you may wish it was fixed, not likely will you forget that a bare straight section exists on the trunk. We often decide to deal with something later and never get quite around to actually getting it done. Simpler to fix in the beginning when you are waiting for a lot of steps to occur rather then after refinement is well under way. Just a thought from mistakes i have made and others have noted in their journey through Bonsai.
 

Lazylightningny

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May I ask why a scion graft would be better? I have this idea in my head that a scion graft has a higher chance of failing, probably because it's no longer attached to the living tree.
 

Adair M

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When it takes, it will emerge from the center of the trunk. An approach graft, especially one pleaced at a right angle to the trunk will look like it growing sideways off the side of the trunk.

If an approach graft fails, you’ve made a deep cut. If a scion graft fails, it’s a small cut at will heal over.

You can try again with a scion graft if it fails, but making another deep approach graft cut?
 

River's Edge

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May I ask why a scion graft would be better? I have this idea in my head that a scion graft has a higher chance of failing, probably because it's no longer attached to the living tree.
Here is an example of what a scion graft will look like in the beginning. In this case i chose a scion with two extensions to allow for extra options going forward. if you look at the side of the trunk about 2/3 of the way up you can see the graft. Depending on the front it will be left side or right side. Also apparrent are the green grafting pin and the clear grafting tape holding the scion in place. The bag that protected the fresh scion and kept the humidty constant , plus provided wind protection has been removed at this stage. The graft was done in march 2017, the buds have extended with new growth on both extensions of the scion since the graft was done.
The scar will be minimal and because the growth is so new creating movement and direction will be easier from the get go. sorry i was unable to find a picture of it straight on, but this should give you the idea. Essentially there is nothing to correct or cover up after a scion graft. And if it fails the scar is very minimal and the tree can easily repair that area as opposed to an open groove and or cut off approach branch.
Not sure if you prefer the right or left view so enclosed both to be safe:)
 

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