JWP ugly graft quandary

[River's Edge]

One issue that has not been identified is the Nebari.
I would be concerned that the discolouration of the graft union represents a disease present in the root stock as it is more black than brown.
If you wish to see what you can do with the tree I would start with the foundation.

1. work out a plan to improve the roots. ( determine if the rootstock is healthy and if it is possible to create some improved nebari. If not scrap the tree!
2. Work out a plan to improve the graft union. Right, who says you cannot change the shape with carving and healing the scar to mitigate the shape. If you plan on leaving the graft union the same, s crap the tree!
3. Wire the trunk and first branch for movement and begin to develop taper with the first branch. If you plan on leaving the straight sections straight, scrap the tree.
4. In other words if the tree is healthy take a very long term point of view and see what you can accomplish over time. Any success on the above steps will be an improvement and worth learning how to do.

All of the above is more applicable if your age is a decade or more lower than mine! Happy New Year!

 

[Shibui]

Thanks for that advice. A convenient time for me to try then. How many needles do you leave and do you have to use lights or misting? Soil mix? Any advice however obvious it might seem would be useful.

Reduce needles to around 5 or 6 groups. Cuttings around 5-10 cm tall (excluding needles). I don't use any lights but winter is still pretty bright down here. I do have misting - humidity management is probably important to get good results. I don't have bottom heat but that would probably improve results. Propagation mix (I use 50/50 coir peat/perlite mix but other similar mixes should still be OK)
Good luck with the attempts but don't expect great things.

 

[Sputnik 184]

Thanks for your continued input. I was very much looking at this project as instructional with little chance of a spectacular outcome and I’m already learning heaps.

@Shibui Thanks for sharing your process for JWP cuttings. I’ll give it a try.

@River's Edge Would you recommend a repot to check the roots now or to wait until Spring. The climate here in the south of England is pretty mild but it’s not unheard of to get a prolonged cold spell.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

Remenber any parts you left under the soild wont develop bark and will potentially have inverse taper

 

[River's Edge]

Thanks for your continued input. I was very much looking at this project as instructional with little chance of a spectacular outcome and I’m already learning heaps.

@Shibui Thanks for sharing your process for JWP cuttings. I’ll give it a try.

@River's Edge Would you recommend a repot to check the roots now or to wait until Spring. The climate here in the south of England is pretty mild but it’s not unheard of to get a prolonged cold spell.

If you are unable to provide frost protection then I would wait on the repot as the surface roots and discolouration of the graft indicate a possible mess beneath which will likely require a lot of work and several repots to make the most of what is available to start with. That and the overall health and amount of foliage is not the best. The best process would be to improve the roots and allow the tree to recover with a big increase in foliage for a year or two. This will not create any additional major problems that do not already exist.
Please keep in mind that if you remove foliage for cuttings at this point they will have very little chance of success. The tree is weak and the removal of additional foliage will just further weaken the overall tree. The cuttings for pines need to be young and vigorous in order to expect any success at all.
The key is drainage, if the pot still drains reasonably well, wait on the repot for the best timing. But manage your watering carefully. If drainage is poor and the tree is weak it is best to improve conditions and provide winter protection while the roots recover.
The variable is your level of training and experience. If you are comfortable knowing how to determine what needs to go and what needs to be kept. Plus prepared to stage the repot if necessary. ( I make this comment because others may advise that it can be done all in one go)
This is true if your training and experience is sufficient for the situation. Based on your posts I would suggest a more cautious approach for best chance of success.

Note: If you decide to give cuttings a go, first strengthen the tree and use the next one or two growing seasons to properly prepare for cutting propagation including growing and selecting the best juvenile sections. This will include selecting the correct length and diameter of the scion, the number and size of buds present and the number of needle groups left per cutting.
Here is a picture of a simple setup that can accomplish what you are considering. A wooden frame, clad in plastic, couple of LED lights, heat mat. There is also a small fan to provide circulation and help prevent excess condensation or fungal issues.This gives basic humidity control, heat, light and overall consistency of environment. Mine is currently in use for JWP " Arakawa" cuttings. They have completed the cold storage phase and callused. Last week they were planted to begin root formation. Research indicates that even with careful controls one can expect limited success.

Limited success still means a cultivar on its own roots which is in my mind worthwhile long term!

 

[Crazy Diamond]

Ive seen people doing JBP branch cuttings with moderate results, never in my life JWP cuttings

 

[Joe Dupre']

I don't know squat about pines. My gut feeling is to buy a better tree and experiment like crazy with this one. You'll probably end up learning more by experimenting and failing, with maybe a few successes along the way. I would just hazard a guess that it would take a minumum of 10-15 years to get something out of that tree that you would be happy with.